[Kaschan]

Headed off to bed soon. Looks like everyone's just kind of shuffling their feet, wondering if we should lynch people who aren't really scum ... but, well, aren't really Inno. I think Mockra probably already is scum, and is playing some kind of game with us. No idea how much truth or untruth there is to Mockra and Gamelon's stories, or Kesso's not-too-subtly encoded maybe reveal.

[Omtose]

Ruse, on Dec 4 2008, 05:12 PM, said:

So I decided I was going to have a look at the posts of a few under-the-radar players thus far. First up was Omtose. I'm not going to do a post by post analysis, just pick out the bits I found interesting.

Omtose said:

Who do i thnk is scum you ask?
Hmmm...i think kaschan and korlat need to be looked at.
They are hiding in plain sight. Seem to jut be sitting around picking up everyone elses cigarette buds if ya know what i mean.

At this point, it is true, Korlat hadn't said a great deal, apart from weighing in with his views on the probable role distribution. So I suppose it's fair enough, although there are plenty of other players you could tar with the same brush, I don't really understand why these two were deserving of special praise.

So then we have:
[

Omtose, on Dec 4 2008, 09:04 AM, said:

Korlat, on Dec 4 2008, 01:05 AM, said:

Liosan, on Dec 4 2008, 01:51 AM, said:

OK - lynch me!

Remove Vote
Vote Liosan

Because I will laugh SO FUCKING HARD YOU WILL HEAR AND FEEL IT FROM ACROSS THE WORLD.

Now, seriously, I did not "blow up" before. I vote for you. During a re-read.

THIS is why people don't talk - you post, you get slammed for whatever you write. If you defend, it's over-reacting, if you don't, it's ignoring the case. Sure, this is part of mafia - and I love it - but really now. You think you've found scum on day one, do you? Vote me then. I dare ya!

Ummm....Errr... WTF?
You know I am inclined to agree atm that you and Kess are just 2 confused innos.

But really a self vote(Liosan) and a bet on your card(Kess, assuming you do actually have one )? This is getting ridiculous.

So enough about them:

Gamelon, on Dec 4 2008, 04:58 AM, said:

Rashan, on Dec 4 2008, 02:51 AM, said:

Gamelon, on Dec 4 2008, 03:46 AM, said:

Both Kessobahn and Liosan seem, in my honest opinion, to most likely be confused innocents.
But if we need a lynch, I ain't shying away from providing y'all with the required hammer, on either of them.

WTF? What kind of stupid reasoning is that? I smell scum!

Either you think they might be scum, and then you vote for them, or you don't think they're scum, and don't vote for them. You don't vote for someone you think is likely inno! WTF!
And you want to hammer them?

And what do you mean if we need a lynch?

Well, it's simple. I ain't voting for either of them right at this moment. However, if it looks like we need to get rid of one of them simply cus there ain't no other option, I ain't averse to it. There's the possibility that I'm wrong about them being inno, firstly. The big possibility.
And secondly, ya get info from a lynch. Whether its from the train or from the CF. I'm prepared to do my bit, and I'd hope y'all would hammer me if it came down to it. If they get to a point where it's eight votes on one of em, they're gonna get lynched by someone. I'd rather take part in the train and actively play instead of sitting down at the dang sidelines. But until then, unless I see more unusual behaviour of either of them, I ain't voting. Not just yet, no how.

Gamelon I echo Rashan when I ask, WTF? You want to be the hammer of 2 probable innocents? huh? Helpful agreeable type anyone?

And Rash, you saying we don't need to lynch? Thats just a little odd from my PoV. I will agree that if it comes down to the wire a lynch is better than no lynch, because it does provide info and trying to analyze a train without a CF is then damn difficult because we have no clue what the alignment of the person that was about to be lynched is!

Just my thoughts atm. Still waiting on D'riss though

This post is EXACTLY what im talking about.
All korlat is doing is repeating all the stupid/incriminating things people have said, and using all then same responses guys have ALREADY said about these stupid/incriminating things.
He is just regurjitating what we already know back to us.
Classic scum behavior.


remove vote
Vote Korlat


edited- for clarity, stupid sentence is stupid

Well first off, Korlat did actually make a point in that post of confronting Rashan about not needing a lynch. So there is some content in there, it's not just parrotting. Plus, everyone pretty much had to weigh in with their opinions on the Liosan matter at the time, and there are only a certain number of points of view to go round. I don't see any substance to this case at all, but it seems fairly strongly held:

Omtose, on Dec 4 2008, 10:00 AM, said:

Emurlahn, on Dec 4 2008, 04:31 AM, said:

Also, @ Omtose: Korlat seems to adress several issues in a few lines in his post. Not a lot of new insight there, so worth watching to see if it continues and if Korlat is being escapist, but it is not always possible to give an entirely new angle on everything, so for now, benefit of the doubt there.

I dont expect someone to come up with an entirely new angle on everything.
But why bother repeating what has already been said?

I think he is just stirring the pot.

Trying to be "helpful" perhaps?
Its definitely evidence of him being scum.
More so than anything else I have seen so far.

Liosan did over react somewhat. But i get the feeling he was just frustrated at Kessoh's manner. I know i would have been.

(emphasis mine)

Now what is this? This claim seems totally off the mark - shows that he is pushing hard for something that isn't really there, as far as I'm concerned. Which makes me very suspicious.

Omtose, on Dec 4 2008, 12:35 PM, said:

D'riss, on Dec 4 2008, 07:27 AM, said:

Omtose, on Dec 4 2008, 02:23 PM, said:

D'riss, on Dec 4 2008, 07:17 AM, said:

Mockra, on Dec 4 2008, 07:16 AM, said:

vote liosan

OK, am I the only one who didn't see that one coming after reading attentively the three giga-posts?

Yea I was thinking Gamelon was gonna get a big fat vote right there, and then BAM...liosan

I perfectly agree with his vote on Liosan and the reason he put to justify it after, I'm just amazed by the gigantic amount of energy he put to build a "symp" case before being sure about Liosan.

Ha ha ha,
hell, Agree with his reasoning as well.

In fact
remove vote
Vote Liosan

There just seems to be more and more "evidence" to the fact that liosan could in fact be scum.
Mockra's case is allot more convincing.
Perhaps kessoh's attitude has been blinding me somewhat.

So Mockra's case on Liosan is more convincing, despite the fact that it was actually aimed at Gamelon with a weird "but I'm going to vote Liosan instead" at the end? This reads to me as though he's searching for any way possible to justify hopping on the train.

Omtose, on Dec 4 2008, 01:48 PM, said:

Ruse, on Dec 4 2008, 08:43 AM, said:

I'm not sure I want to hop on the train because I am not, at this stage, convinced of Liosan's guilt. I'm here for a little while, in which case I'll have a look through and see if I can find anyone else worth making a case on. Basically, I'm afraid of what happened in the last game, where everyone focused on a few players and suddenly it was get it right or scum win. So I want to at least try and rake up some other stuff, even if it's probably pushing against an inevitable tide at this point.

This was pretty much my thinking aswell.
But i came to the realization that liosan is our only realistic option at a lynch today.

Here is a different explanation for why he switched votes...doesn't quite chime with his earlier statement, in which he said his reason for switching was that he agreed with Mockra's case.

Omtose, on Dec 4 2008, 02:46 PM, said:

Rashan, on Dec 4 2008, 09:42 AM, said:

We have two possible threads to follow here, either we lynch Liosan or we lynch Kesso - both will give us information. I'd rather go for Kesso first, and then Liosan, because I don't like to be manipulated into voting.

then dont vote

More contradictions - when Omtose says he is similarly conflicted, he nevertheless votes anyway.


So overall, I see plenty of very suspicious stuff here from Omtose. Enough so that I could most definitely see him as scum. So Vote Omtose.

So this is the case...
meh....

I went after Korlat since he just seemed to regurgitate what others have already said.
That for me is a classic scum tactic.
More so than anything else i have seen. More so than even the self vote.
I explained why...I felt that liosans self vote was reactionary to the fact that Kessoh bet his card liosan was scum.
simple really

I then decided that maybe kessohs attitude could very well be blinding me to the fact that liosan could in fact be scum. becasue at the time i didnt see it.
Kessohs case was all based on him strawmanning liosan and not on actual fact.
I decided to take kessoh out of the equation and look at liosan by himself...that was around the time when mockra made the case that gamelon was symping liosan.
It all just started piling up and just added to liosan possibly being scum...so i voted liosan.

Now as for me poking korlat....i mean WTF?
we are not aloud to poke people anymore?
I dont know about you but if I find something scummy I will push it to see how he reacts.
Should we all just look at one player the entire game?
Excuse me for actually not playing with blinkers on and trying to find scum.

[Omtose]

double post - deleted s it is long

This post has been edited by Omtose: 08 December 2008 - 08:19 AM

[Omtose]

D'riss, on Dec 8 2008, 03:01 AM, said:

Omtose, on Dec 8 2008, 09:39 AM, said:

D'riss, on Dec 8 2008, 02:33 AM, said:

Hey, you should be grateful we didn't lynch you

what for?

Quasi-unanimity approval of general scumminess behavior

really?

Shame...poor guys seem to be jumping at shadows then.

I am just your Average Joe Shmoe.

[D'riss]

Omtose, why DID you decide to vote Liosan? One of the points was that you were changing the reasons after you voted to agree with whatever reasons people were putting at the time.

[Omtose]

Tennes, on Dec 4 2008, 05:26 PM, said:

And whats the "liability" with that.
That means good gains a guard. Although im not sure what I am. Neutral I guess, but then, does that mean we're against the GBs aswell? If they're a seperate team. Im gonna guess that they're basically on our team, but more actively good, as its a deliberate act of evil to guard one, unlike a RI, therefore, RI wouldnt change his alignment? It also means he knows the name of scum(whoever he guarded).

I would just like to point out that I am RI and it most definitely says that i am a "goodie".
So would think that if Gamelon was a RI aswell then Mockra would now be an evil gArd.

[Omtose]

D'riss, on Dec 8 2008, 03:26 AM, said:

Omtose, why DID you decide to vote Liosan? One of the points was that you were changing the reasons after you voted to agree with whatever reasons people were putting at the time.

Sigh....

I said that i felt liosan was just getting blasted by Kessoh...
I was more focussed on kessoh and thought that he was really blowing liosan out of the water. And the result was liosan making himslef lok scummy by dping stupid things like the self vote.
I decided to forget about what kessoh was saying and just look at what liosan said as i felt kessoh was perhaos blinding me a bit.

At that time mockra made his symping case aswell...I agreed with that possibility, coupled with the fact that liosan DID self vote.
Even though i felt it was a direct result of Kessoh's goading him with betting his "mafia card".
So forget the kessoh remarks and looking at the facts...liosan self voted...FACT...he left it there FACT.
I then changed my mind....especially after mockras symp case.

I am allowed to change my mind...no?

You see, the problem was for me that i was in two minds.
Kessoh was part of the problem, I really felt that liosan self voted purely because of kessohs statements.
But then liosan DID self vote...and then leaving it there on top of it cannot be ignored.
So a bit of indecision on my behalf is what occurred.

In the end it was obvious that liosan was the only viable lynch anyways.

[Hood's Path]

Hm, Kaschan is very reluctant to vote Gamelon, and seems to be the one most averse to seeing him lynched. Come to think of it, he's been trying - though ineffectually - to move attention away from Gamelon for the last few pages. Not to mention he's been an under the radar player so far. If Gamelon comes up guilty, I think Kaschan is the strongest bet for a partner.

so, to make my list real quick like.

Rashan
Gamelon
Kaschan
D'riss

I think 3 out of 4 here are evil. As I can participate more from now on I hope to prove or disprove this statement.

when it comes to innocents I believe that Omtose and Kessobahn are both innocent. In fact, I'd go so far as to say I know Omtose is a RI. Kessobahn is more based on feeling in all honesty. He is just not... planned enough in his posting to seem evil to my mind.

Mockra too, seeing that I buy his reveal and think Gamelon is evil. It narrows it down quite a bit, and gives you some idea of my thoughts about this game which sadly has been lacking so far and for that I apologize.

[D'riss]

"Sigh.." ?

Well, SO-RY!

[D'riss]

Hood's Path, on Dec 8 2008, 10:50 AM, said:

Hm, Kaschan is very reluctant to vote Gamelon, and seems to be the one most averse to seeing him lynched. Come to think of it, he's been trying - though ineffectually - to move attention away from Gamelon for the last few pages. Not to mention he's been an under the radar player so far. If Gamelon comes up guilty, I think Kaschan is the strongest bet for a partner.

After his last post, I almost quoted him to make ironic comments about his view of The Gatekeeper not being quite scum, then lecturing us about our votes, before disappearing without even putting one.

But then I saw he was headed off to bed "soon", so let's see what he does.

[D'riss]

By the way, I kinda believe Mockra and his reveal, and his current confusion of not having a team after his first night. It makes sense if Gamelon is Dana

However, as of now he needs to find a scum to stay in our team. Unless Mockra has seriously well hidden game-savyness that he's hiding so far on purpose, I would say the odds are quite overwhelming that tomorrow he'll be a scum guard.

[Kaschan]

D'riss, on Dec 8 2008, 12:53 AM, said:

Hood's Path, on Dec 8 2008, 10:50 AM, said:

Hm, Kaschan is very reluctant to vote Gamelon, and seems to be the one most averse to seeing him lynched. Come to think of it, he's been trying - though ineffectually - to move attention away from Gamelon for the last few pages. Not to mention he's been an under the radar player so far. If Gamelon comes up guilty, I think Kaschan is the strongest bet for a partner.

After his last post, I almost quoted him to make ironic comments about his view of The Gatekeeper not being quite scum, then lecturing us about our votes, before disappearing without even putting one.

But then I saw he was headed off to bed "soon", so let's see what he does.

Oh, I'm still here. I just hate to put someone at L-1 right before I leave for a while, especially without a mod around.

Lack of resolution and all that.

[D'riss]

Do you also hate to discuss who you would prefer to vote and why?

[Kaschan]

In fact, now that we've got six people on, and I won't have to wait long:


Vote Gamelon

[D'riss]

I thought it was the mods you were waiting for...

[Omtose]

Fener, on Dec 4 2008, 06:50 PM, said:

Ruse, on Dec 4 2008, 02:12 PM, said:

Omtose, on Dec 4 2008, 12:35 PM, said:

D'riss, on Dec 4 2008, 07:27 AM, said:

Omtose, on Dec 4 2008, 02:23 PM, said:

D'riss, on Dec 4 2008, 07:17 AM, said:

Mockra, on Dec 4 2008, 07:16 AM, said:

vote liosan

OK, am I the only one who didn't see that one coming after reading attentively the three giga-posts?

Yea I was thinking Gamelon was gonna get a big fat vote right there, and then BAM...liosan

I perfectly agree with his vote on Liosan and the reason he put to justify it after, I'm just amazed by the gigantic amount of energy he put to build a "symp" case before being sure about Liosan.

Ha ha ha,
hell, Agree with his reasoning as well.

In fact
remove vote
Vote Liosan

There just seems to be more and more "evidence" to the fact that liosan could in fact be scum.
Mockra's case is allot more convincing.
Perhaps kessoh's attitude has been blinding me somewhat.

So Mockra's case on Liosan is more convincing, despite the fact that it was actually aimed at Gamelon with a weird "but I'm going to vote Liosan instead" at the end? This reads to me as though he's searching for any way possible to justify hopping on the train.

So I read your case and I really like it. Omtose has been not very consistent at all, contradicting himself at times to go with the flow. . The only thing I don't agree with isthe point above that I just quoted. Mockra's case was on Liosan with Gamelon as a symp. I actually thought it was a well put together case for game symping Liosan. Not sure why people are having a hard time understanding that He( Mockra) was doing what you should do if you think you have found a master and a symp... vote the master. He didn't have much evidence on the master but a hell of a lot on the symp. He quoted it and voted master.... BUT, your other points hold water. Enough to sway me.

vote omtose

EDIT for spelling

Really?....enough to sway you?

So you think i just went with the flow?...you mean like what you just did now?
You say yourslef that the case mockra made was good.
I also felt it was good...and subsequently i changed my mind and voted.

[Kaschan]

@D'riss: I really prefer Mockra, since he may have already been turned. Gamelon ... who knows. Either way, it'll have to be one today and the other tomorrow.

[D'riss]

You don't like to put someone at L-1, but now that there's more people, thus more chances of a hammer it convinces you to do it?

[Omtose]

D'riss, on Dec 8 2008, 03:51 AM, said:

"Sigh.." ?

Well, SO-RY!

well....i DID jut explain myself...now i had to do it TWICE

[Hood's Path]

Kaschan, on Dec 8 2008, 10:58 AM, said:

In fact, now that we've got six people on, and I won't have to wait long:


Vote Gamelon

distancing is fun