[Shadowthrone]

Some friends and I have been debating lately about the best league in Europe so I wanted to bring it up here. My friends are all EPL fans but I prefer La Liga so here is some info I found.

First, the subject near and dear to my heart as a fan of football. It has been commented by many and often of how the EPL is the vast superior league. Let me say before I go any further that this is not an discussion to argue which is better (the styles are different but the soccer quality is the same) I merely want to shut up the critics(and any of you who have made previous comments against Spain or Italy in comparison to England).

Here is a reference to start us off (his the second line of Kanoute's answer voices my opinions exactly):

World Soccer: You played for Tottenham, and now Sevilla. How does La Liga compare to the Premiership?Kanouté: They are very different. In England the game is quicker because it never stops; it comes from the mentality of the British people, who are very passionate. In Spain, it's more technical, you take time to make nice football, you have more time to develop the game. I liked the Premiership, it was a physical, pacy game, and you had to be strong to be able to cope with that. But in Spain maybe I have more fun because the team is playing well and we just enjoy it on the pitch.

Facts:

- Since 1997, Spain has had 4 Champions League winners while England has had 3. However, it's worth noting that since 1997, Spain has had just 2 runners up while England has had 3.

- Since 1997, Spain has had 3 Uefa Cup winners while England has had 1. Also Spain has had 1 runners up while England has had 2.

- In England you have to go back to the 04/05 season to find the last time to top 4 teams were not the top four in the standings showing a dominance that, while impressive, really makes me question the competition the top four teams are up against...

- In Spain you have to go back to the 01/02 season to find the last time four of the same teams were top four in two consecutive seasons. I find this much more exciting and it leads to a wider race for the end of the season.


Some Premier League players who have moved to Spain:
Beckham - Mirror of the player he was in England (no obvious difference)
Owen - Shadow of the player he was in England
Henry - A steady contributor but still hasn't found his feet in Spain
Woodgate - Was utter rubbish in Spain (multiple own goals and red cards come to mind)
Kanoute - Has lit it up since playing in La Liga

Some La Liga players who have moved to England:

Torres - Has lit it up in England more then he ever did in Spain
Robinho - Tied for 3rd in scori ng in his first year in England
Fabregas - Is the most important player on Arsenal
Deco - Was player of the Premier League in his first month and has played really well since joining Chelsea

Current Season:

Many of you have made comments about how easy it seems to be to score in Spain (with Eto'os big games recently). Barcelona are the only team in Spain (and England actually) with an obscene number of goals. Eto'o has 13 goals which is only 1 more than England's top scorer (Anelka).

Barcelona are the hottest team in Europe and to disagree with that would be just ridiculous.

All matches between Premiership and La Liga teams this season:

Atlético Madrid1 - 1LiverpoolAtlético Madrid1 - 1LiverpoolMan Utd0 - 0Villarreal Man Utd 0 - 0 Villarreal

All of this information is just to prove that the leagues are equal (at least).

[caladanbrood]

Shadowthrone, on Dec 2 2008, 05:48 PM, said:

Barcelona are the hottest team in Europe and to disagree with that would be just ridiculous.

I disagree. I hate United, but they are the best team in Europe, and that role has been switching between them and Milan for several years now. Barca are a very very good team, but they had a shocking season for most of last year.


Personally, I think the most exciting league to watch is Serie A. As for the best, that just depends on your taste. Personally the Premiership is unbeatable for drama, which is the most important part.

[Macros]

how many english teams were in the last 4 of europe last year?
I forget

EPL is the best, to says its not competative enough is foolishness of the highest degree, may I point to hull as a prime example?

[Bhurnae]

For sheer entertainment and and confusability it has to be this seasons premiership

[Daser]

I think your view are to based on what you watch on TV. Brasil and Argentina have damn strong leagues.

Besides it changes regularly. (If we talk EU only)I think for awhile Italian league was strongest then it was Spanish and it is leaning towards England now.

Leagues getting weaker these last years: German, Dutch and maybe Italy.

Leagues getting stronger these last years: England, French and maybe Russia.

[Bent]

Ummm.. I choose the NFC east. Wait. What?

[Shadowthrone]

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I think your view are to based on what you watch on TV. Brasil and Argentina have damn strong leagues.

Agreed but if you pit the teams from Euro leagues against Brasil and Argentina I'm afraid it would be a massacre.

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how many english teams were in the last 4 of europe last year?
I forget

EPL is the best, to says its not competative enough is foolishness of the highest degree, may I point to hull as a prime example?

Well then I must be a fool Yes England had 3 teams in the semis of the CL and last season most of them deserved to be there. But it also had alot to do with Barca (the biggest competition for any of those teams) having one of the worst injury plagues of the last century haha. The English league is no where near as competitive as say the Italian and Spanish leagues. You just have to look at the last time a team other then Liverpool, Arsenal, Man U, and Chelsea weren't top four (2001). Of course there is the odd team that comes and plays well, Hull are awesome, but to base the entire league on Hull is suspect.

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I disagree. I hate United, but they are the best team in Europe, and that role has been switching between them and Milan for several years now. Barca are a very very good team, but they had a shocking season for most of last year

Definitely because they won last years Champions League they should be. But in this current season there is only one team in all the top leagues that have been convincing and that is Barcelona. Only one loss and 2 draws all season in all competition. Plus they have the most goals of any of the top teams with one of the best defensive records as well. Man U in Europe have been abysmal (2 wins and 2 ties) and their play has been mildly entertaining at the most.

Don't get me wrong I watch all leagues and enjoy good games no matter where they are, I just haven't seen alot from Man U that I like this season and Barca are playing Joga Bonita at its best.

[Darts]

I guess youre talking about the overall quality of the leagues and just not the best team? The reason I ask is that you keep bringing up Barca as the overall example for La Liga... I agree that they are THE team this season, but you fail to mention teams lika Real Madrid who have been playing awfull (in my opinion) so far.
I'd say the EPL and La Liga is pretty evenly matched as far as the overall quality goes, but i would disagree with those who claim that the spanish play better football...

On another note I read the stats on how much money the teams earn in the 4 top European leagues,EPL won easily and if the trend keeps going the risk (or chance i guess ) is that the English teams will get much more money and thus be able to get more of the best players...

[polishgenius]

Woodgate wasn't rubbish in Spain at all, he had an awful debut but after that, whenever he wasn't injured, he was very good for them. There was one time when they were leaking goals, he came back from injury, they kept eleven clean sheets in a row, then he got injured again and they lost 6-1 to Zaragoza in the next game.

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But it also had alot to do with Barca (the biggest competition for any of those teams) having one of the worst injury plagues of the last century haha.

Dealing with an injury crisis is part of the mark of the quality of a team. Strength in depth does count... both United and Chelsea had problems with injuries yet made the final. The season before last, we lost five defenders to injury before we had to play anyone in a position they weren't comfortable in, and as a result won the league, although not, obviously, the CL.

The depth and solidity is in the Premiership. If anything the competitiveness in the Spanish leagues is because of lower quality- sure, it's more interesting, but apart from a couple of stars, how many Villareal, Sevilla or Atletico players would get into the top 4 in the UK, and does anyone really think they'd get into the top 4 here either? Spanish teams have been woefully inconsistent in recent years - Madrid have won the last two years while Barca looked poor, the opposite is true now and was true before that. Barca will probably make a solid challenge on the CL this year but no other Spanish team is really likely to,

Italy are building back up, but at the moment they're a distant third, they were in danger of being overtaken by France for a time, and even now the Russian league is making threatening noises though it's not there yet. Sure Milan have had an awesome record but everyone else has been poor (and look at Milan now), and in the league at the moment it's all about Inter and it'll be a big surprise if anyone challenges that. Take a look at Roma's performances against Manchester United in recent years.

imo, of course.

Like Darts says, it's all about the money.

[Thelomen Toblerone]

Bundesliga ftw w00t!

Go Hoffnheim!!!

[Nandaki]

In my opinion Serie A is the most exciting league.Since it's a very competitive league. EPL is fast paced I'll admit, but barring a few players I don't find them up there in technical and tactical ability. Spain as a league is excellent right now. But all the big money is in the EPL and hence the big players are migrating there because of that. Also the Italian league was hit hard by all the match fixing allegations, losing a bit of it's lusture. But I think it's getting back it's class.

[Macros]

the world club cup doesnt result in a slaughting match when the likes of sao paulo come up agaisnt the cl winners.

[Cougar]

First up I'm going to say that I'm not here to defend the EPL as I love both La Liga and Serie A, I also watch Ligue 1 and Bundesliga. I'd say in general the Italians defend better but can get caught out by raw pace and relentless attack, the Spanish attack with great flair and techncial ability but their defences are weak as fuck, the EPL lacks some techncial skills but it's the fastest the defence is better than Spain and the atack is better than Italy. If I had to pick one to watch all the time it would be Spain but the EPL has the highest qulaity which is borne out by the standings of the last few Champions league competitions.

Shadowthrone, on Dec 2 2008, 05:48 PM, said:

World Soccer: You played for Tottenham, and now Sevilla. How does La Liga compare to the Premiership?Kanouté: They are very different. In England the game is quicker because it never stops; it comes from the mentality of the British people, who are very passionate. In Spain, it's more technical, you take time to make nice football, you have more time to develop the game. I liked the Premiership, it was a physical, pacy game, and you had to be strong to be able to cope with that. But in Spain maybe I have more fun because the team is playing well and we just enjoy it on the pitch.

I don't think this shows anything really?

Shadowthrone, on Dec 2 2008, 05:48 PM, said:

Some Premier League players who have moved to Spain:
Beckham - Mirror of the player he was in England (no obvious difference)
Owen - Shadow of the player he was in England
Henry - A steady contributor but still hasn't found his feet in Spain
Woodgate - Was utter rubbish in Spain (multiple own goals and red cards come to mind)
Kanoute - Has lit it up since playing in La Liga

I don't think that 13 goals in 35 appearances many as sub is a bad return for a first season, bear in mind that many would argue he had not been on form the season before at Liverpool, an idea borne out by his poor form and injury proneness since joining Newcastle. Henry is past his best and Wenger knew this,Woodgate improved the Real Madrid defence no end, in the game where he was red carded and scored an own goal he was organising the defence very well and he had a really positive impact on Sergio Ramos positional play over the season. Kanute obviously prefers the style of play in La liga.

Shadowthrone, on Dec 2 2008, 05:48 PM, said:

Some La Liga players who have moved to England:

Torres - Has lit it up in England more then he ever did in Spain
Robinho - Tied for 3rd in scori ng in his first year in England
Fabregas - Is the most important player on Arsenal
Deco - Was player of the Premier League in his first month and has played really well since joining Chelsea

Torres and Robinho I agree, Deco I'm undecided on but Fabregas never kicked a ball in La Liga, he has been at Arsenal since what 15 or 16 years old.

Shadowthrone, on Dec 2 2008, 05:48 PM, said:

Barcelona are the hottest team in Europe and to disagree with that would be just ridiculous.

Well Barcelona have done well against sides who can't defend, and I'd agree they look hot stuff and have a reputation as an amazing attacking side at the moment but I'd be inclined to wait till they have faced a Man Utd or a Liverpool before making a statement like that. Remember how blunt their much vaunted attack looked against a fairly workmanlike performance from Man Utd last year.

[Macros]

We beat Barca last year, on their turf, so when it comes to a team that regualrly keep clean sheets, no they don't just roll over the opposition.

I agree with torres and robinho shining in the epl, but as cougar said, fabregas was never a la liga player, he was trained for the epl, and deco? hes not the palyer he was in spain, sorry to break this to you

(I am defending the epl, i think its the best, well, the best that we routinely watch here, south american football doesnt get much air time here, and even at that, I'd say you could drop on of the top 4 into south america and they wouldn't be demolished they would very likely hold their own)

As for players heading to spain, what about steve McManaman? two champions league medals, forcing himself back into the team twice when he was being sidelined, making himself an auto pick almost, he only faded from veiw when the ridiculous disneyfication (sorry Galáctico policy) of real madrid properly took hold.
Hes touted as one of the most succesful english players in a foreign team, he was amssive fans favourite and routinely scored important goals. Only the money hungry mercenary behaviour of the real madrid board forced him out.

[caladanbrood]

Deco has only had about 10 games for Chelsea, due to injury. He started very brightly, and has faded a bit since, probably from not being fully fit. It's impossible to make any judgement from that.

[Shadowthrone]

You see this is why I brought it up. I knew you would all have valid and interesting points on the subject. Again let me state that I enjoy all of the soccer leagues, this was just brought up with my friends because they kept annoying me about how EPL owns La Liga which I think is a be rediculous.

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On another note I read the stats on how much money the teams earn in the 4 top European leagues,EPL won easily and if the trend keeps going the risk (or chance i guess ) is that the English teams will get much more money and thus be able to get more of the best players...

The EPL have 6 of the 20 richest football clubs in the world and yet only four of them are ever contending for the top for CL places. This is talking about the last 7 or so years, this year we will see how long Villa stay as contenders.

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Dealing with an injury crisis is part of the mark of the quality of a team. Strength in depth does count... both United and Chelsea had problems with injuries yet made the final. The season before last, we lost five defenders to injury before we had to play anyone in a position they weren't comfortable in, and as a result won the league, although not, obviously, the CL.

I agree that dealing with injuries is an important part of any season but I would honestly like to see Man U or Chelsea without 5 or 6 of their starting 11 and missing their best player to boot. Last year Barca were missing Henry, Ronaldinho, and Eto'o, and Messi for so many games, there were only a handful of games that the coach had to choose from all four of them and even those they were not fully fit. This does not include the injuries to Deco, Iniesta, Abidal, and Puyol over the course of the season. The same can be said of Real Madrid this year. Nistelrooy, Robben, Sneijder, De la Red, Cannavaro and Metzelder are all sidelined at the moment. I don't think Man U or Chelsea could cope with injuries like this for very long. Heck I don't know if Man U could even score if Ronaldo was out for a lengthy spell, not to mention the likes of Rooney, Ferdinand, Evra, etc. I don't think you can compare anything Chelsea or Man U have gone through the last few years to what Barca and Madrid have.

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Barca will probably make a solid challenge on the CL this year but no other Spanish team is really likely to,

True you are but the difference to me is that there might be 3 English teams in the quarters or semis but, like last year, Liverpool (or whoever) is not even contending in league. To me its sort of contradictory when your team is in the final rounds of CL but you are playing like rubbish in league.

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We beat Barca last year, on their turf, so when it comes to a team that regualrly keep clean sheets, no they don't just roll over the opposition.

Man U actually tied Barca on their turf last year 0-0 and beat them 1-0 at Old Trafford. And if you watched the games you would have seen a Barca side (without Ronaldinho) who completely outplayed Man U in both games but lacked the killer edge.

As for the players I named, I didn't mean anything by it, just thought it was interesting (i'm not a Woodgate fan so that came off wrong). Fabregas though came over from Barca's youth team so while he never played in La Liga he grew up playing that style at least.

[Cougar]

I'm sorry your assessment of the Man Utd Barcelona encounters is inaccurate United outplayed and out-thought Barca completely, Messi was the only danager and he was running into dead ends all night at OT. United barely broke stride at the Camp Nou and came a way with a draw when they should really have won.

[Shadowthrone]

Well apparently we each watched two different games. Because I completely remember Ronaldo being shut down and playing like a chicken with its head cut off. Barcelona dominated possession and outshot Man U in both games. Man U did come out of the games victorious but I would not call it a convincing victory by a long shot.

[polishgenius]

Shadowthrone, on Dec 4 2008, 10:19 PM, said:

Well apparently we each watched two different games. Because I completely remember Ronaldo being shut down and playing like a chicken with its head cut off. Barcelona dominated possession and outshot Man U in both games. Man U did come out of the games victorious but I would not call it a convincing victory by a long shot.

We definitely watched different games then. Ronaldo was quiet by his standards but he certainly didn't run around like a headless chicken, and much like the contrast between the overall team performances, the touches he did get he generally made good use of possession, including the run that led to the mix-up for Scholes to score, whereas Messi had the ball all night for both games yet only once in the whole tie did I actually think he was going to score. That was, partly, down to his teammates being static and unhelpful, which wouldn't be the case this year judging by current form, but it showed up that difference - we made efficient use of our possession (and we certainly weren't playing at our best). I never really thought at any point that we were in much danger of losing.

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I don't think you can compare anything Chelsea or Man U have gone through the last few years to what Barca and Madrid have.

Not quite perhaps. But there was a point the year before last when Evra, Ferdinand, Vidic, Heinze and Neville were all injured at the same time - our entire first choice defence at the time plus one backup. Chelsea had a period last season when Carvalho, Terry and Cech were all out, and we had similar.

Thing is, we have two players who can play to a good level in every position (last year we had it in all but one, up front, where if Rooney got injured we were ****ed), and it's why we're rarely caught short by injury. Chelsea have less so (their squad is a bit CM heavy) but still up there. Barca and Madrid can't do that, although they've both been working on their squads. Look what's happened to Madrid when RVN's suddenly out, all their strikers are support strikers and they're lost.

[Nandaki]

This is taken from wikipedia. This isn't to say which club or league is better, but just to get a general picture of how competitive each league is over the years.

The point I want to make is this consider the amount of different clubs representing each league. You'll notice that Italy, Germany and England has the most diversity. Ofcourse this is taken over the entire history of the champions league and not reflecting present conditions. But Italy by far has been the most competitive league so far. It looks like EPL is reaching a golden age where they can attract the top talent, but this is true only for the top four teams.

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