[D'rek]

Silencer, on 25 October 2009 - 09:29 PM, said:

But! I will point out that Sinn is a prodigy. I'd be willing to be that not many people manifest as High Mages when they're that young, and do so in the middle of a firestorm. (Come to think of it, the firestorm is probably the reason she got revealed, but that power was already in her, she just didn't know how to use it...hence the impression that she's on autopilot during the episode).

Well, she also sensed Shard under Y'Ghatan, something no other mage in the army did. And Henaras certainly thought she had plenty of potential...

[Abyss]

D, on 26 October 2009 - 02:18 AM, said:

Silencer, on 25 October 2009 - 09:29 PM, said:

But! I will point out that Sinn is a prodigy. ...

Well, she also sensed Shard under Y'Ghatan, something no other mage in the army did. And Henaras certainly thought she had plenty of potential...

That was a family/blood/bond thing, same as QB finding his sister in TB. Could be a reflection of her high mage power level, maybe not, but the point is that no one else in the army had a family member crawling around under the city.

@D'rek - re spoilers above removed, sorry about that, thanks for the head's up.

- Abyss, ...like milk after its expiry date, these are the spoilers of our lives...

[Bauchelain the Evil]

Silencer, on 25 October 2009 - 09:29 PM, said:

*bows*

I will concede the point on Tattersail, though she technically never made it to the rank of High Mage, and was getting absolutely beaten down in the Enfilade (further proof of levels within High Magery).

I think you're being a bit too harsh with Tattersail. Tayschrenn obviously thought she could cope against Bellurda, who wasn't only a powerful mage but also a guy who could kill Kenryllah with his bare hands, otherwise he wouldn't have sent Tool with his magic deadening power.

[D'rek]

Bauchelain the Evil, on 26 October 2009 - 05:30 PM, said:

Silencer, on 25 October 2009 - 09:29 PM, said:

*bows*

I will concede the point on Tattersail, though she technically never made it to the rank of High Mage, and was getting absolutely beaten down in the Enfilade (further proof of levels within High Magery).

I think you're being a bit too harsh with Tattersail. Tayschrenn obviously thought she could cope against Bellurda, who wasn't only a powerful mage but also a guy who could kill Kenryllah with his bare hands, otherwise he wouldn't have sent Tool with his magic deadening power.

Wasn't the idea that Tattersail couldn't cope against Bellurdan and would be forced to return to Pale so she couldn't pursue Lorn/Tool (which Tayschrenn was in league with so he indeed would not want Tattersail ruining the plans for Darujhistan)...?

Honestly I think Tattersail was technically capable to just barely make it as a High Mage, but she'd be no where on par with the likes of Tays, Bellurdan, A'karonys or others. And while she has that ability, I think her confidence issues with her own ability would keep her from achieving that.

[Silencer]

D, on 26 October 2009 - 10:38 PM, said:

Bauchelain the Evil, on 26 October 2009 - 05:30 PM, said:

Silencer, on 25 October 2009 - 09:29 PM, said:

*bows*

I will concede the point on Tattersail, though she technically never made it to the rank of High Mage, and was getting absolutely beaten down in the Enfilade (further proof of levels within High Magery).

I think you're being a bit too harsh with Tattersail. Tayschrenn obviously thought she could cope against Bellurda, who wasn't only a powerful mage but also a guy who could kill Kenryllah with his bare hands, otherwise he wouldn't have sent Tool with his magic deadening power.

Wasn't the idea that Tattersail couldn't cope against Bellurdan and would be forced to return to Pale so she couldn't pursue Lorn/Tool (which Tayschrenn was in league with so he indeed would not want Tattersail ruining the plans for Darujhistan)...?

Honestly I think Tattersail was technically capable to just barely make it as a High Mage, but she'd be no where on par with the likes of Tays, Bellurdan, A'karonys or others. And while she has that ability, I think her confidence issues with her own ability would keep her from achieving that.

Yes, exactly. Tool was not sent to deal with Tattersail, they had no communication. Tool's magical entropy field was merely used by Tay/Bellurdan in order to gauge where she'd have to emerge from her warren. It was expected that 'Sail would then have no choice but to come with Bellurdan peacefully. I don't think Tay honestly expected her to ever put up a fight against Bellurdan, let alone immediately inside the field, hence the unexpected consequences.

And I agree about her confidence issues.

[Abyss]

It was somewhat open between T'sail having confidence issues vs just not wanting the attention and responsibility of being a High Mage. it's suggested early in GotM that she was almost enjoying the lack of anything to do at Pale other than shag Calot. tays also notes at some point that her talent with the Deck exceeds his own.

Also, Tool and Lorn were travelling in the area. Bellurdan was sent by Tays to recover T'sail and on his own initiative figured out where she'd emerge. The two sets of travellers weren't otherwise linked. When Bellurdan delivered the 'come quietly or die' message, iirc it's actually Tattersail who opens a can of whupass on him, kicking in her improvised soul transfer to Nightchill's body at the same time. Still going by faint recall, but i think she deliberately opened her warren too much, hence enough to take out Bellurdan even tho she got crisped too.

So by way of full circle, it would seem she was very powerful, and also skilled enough to pull off the soul transfer, hence, High Mage material.

Back to Bottle - Bottle's whole 'ride the animal life sparks' thing is more or less a form of soul transfer, and obviously not an easy thing to do, however much the squad takes him doing it for granted. At various points he has any number of 'spies' on the go, which suggests, at the least, a talent for multi-tasking in his thinkypartz.

- Abyss, can walk and chew gum AND listen to music.

[Ben Adephon Delat]

Does soul shifting require power or merely knowledge and skill. Bottle is as knowledgeable and as skillful as some of the best High Mages certainly vastly more so than Sinn but he lacks feats of endurance or destructive power. Beak showed far greater magical stamina than Bottle during the invasion

[Binder of Demons]

I think people are underestimating Bottle's potential.

He has a definite preference for older style magics, and states on several occasions that he doesn't like using warren based magic. That doesn't mean he can't, he just doesn't like it, and so he prefers to use his so called "earth-based" magics, and smaller rituals, rather than big flashy demonstrations of a specific warren.

It is Beak that really hints at the potential power in Bottle. Reapers Gale, Tpb, pg756

Quote

He saw in Bottle coruscating waves of raw power, a refulgence devoid of all control - but that would come. It will come.

I wondered at that quote before, and whether it is a fear of losing control of his magic which keeps him from showing his raw power. Hopefully we'll get to see Bottle truly unleash his magic at some point.

[Ben Adephon Delat]

If he has so much power then one would say that he shouldn't have been exhausted after spending most of the invasion riding other animals souls. As such either he can't access said power or riding souls uses far more power than one would expect.

Has Quick ever been present whilst Bottle was riding a soul because I'd think he'd notice if it was a really powerful spell

[Bauchelain the Evil]

Well, in TBH Nether warns Nil that Bottle can use earth magic or whatever you want to call it.
Nil isn't impressed and says that he does things they did when they were small kids.
At which Nether smiles.

So the point would be that controlling animals isn't something so difficult, but that Bottle has other talents.

[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

Bauchelain the Evil, on 28 October 2009 - 03:59 PM, said:

Well, in TBH Nether warns Nil that Bottle can use earth magic or whatever you want to call it.
Nil isn't impressed and says that he does things they did when they were small kids.
At which Nether smiles.

So the point would be that controlling animals isn't something so difficult, but that Bottle has other talents.

Well you could take that statement a couple of different ways. When Nil and Nether were kids they were the reincarnated souls of formerly very powerful mages and started doing advancement magic very young.

[Abyss]

WhiskeyJackDaniels said:

Well you could take that statement a couple of different ways. When Nil and Nether were kids they were the reincarnated souls of formerly very powerful mages and started doing advancement magic very young.

That is a VERY good point. Post Rep'd for brilliance.

- Abyss, started doing advanced napping very young.

[Silencer]

Depends which "when they were kids" he was talking about, really.

Consider, if you will, what QB was doing at 10 years old, with the wolf and sheep dolls. But at the same time, someone else could have been doing that at 5. Doesn't mean they end up more powerful or more skillful, either. So if you think about it, Nil and Nether doing it "when they were kids" only really indicates that what Bottle is doing is simple to them. The fact that he's doing it at 20 could still be a massive achievement.

Quick Ben has noticed Bottle...but he also knows that a lot of Bottle's 'natural talent' with the doll magic was the Eres'al. So who knows. XD