[D'riss]

Rashan, on Nov 25 2008, 06:06 PM, said:

Driss definatly doesn't sit on the same side of the fence as Liosan. As far as I can remember, he's one of the few who hasn't voted me yet.

I voted for you day 1 for spamming
that was day 1
today, there's been only 2 votes cast.
lots of people expressed interest in lynching you, Liosan did vote for you.
I have put you as number 3 in my lynching list.
though i'm liking th einput from Thyr right now.

[Path-Shaper]

Ok, this mod is going to bed now. Morgy may or may not be around, and there's a couple of people in spoilers, so you shouldnt be completely modless.

[Rashan]

2 users lurking and 8 anonymous users on the board altogether?
Stop neglecting your Mafia, people.

[Thyrllan]

Rashan, on Nov 25 2008, 10:00 PM, said:

Fener Part One

Ok have just looked through your first list of Feners posts and a few things caught my eye...

Fener, on Nov 24 2008, 04:52 PM, said:

One observation, I find it rather unlikely that a true killer would get involved this early on in a "You're a spammer" "No! You are! I am voting you!!" 'You're a symp!!" "You are a killer!!" war this early. Proabbly 2 innos and a symp duking it out. Killer might have been involved early but would pull back so as not to be in the spot light too much...who fits that description?

First this is interesting as you say he is pointing at one of you lot as a symp, without much to go on , but probably not much all in all bad about this
Helpful Fener is helpful. Throws out the possibility that one of us was a symp. Asks an ominous question...

Fener, on Nov 24 2008, 05:57 PM, said:

@Liosan, my senses started tingling at that statement as well... not that I think it was a missent PM, but the famaliarity and blatent message to stop. I don't think Rash is shadow's symp, but I do think shadow might be trying to make clear that he is someone who doesn't need to be symped. If someone did that to me I would brush it off and let my play speak for itself to prove my innocence if an accusation was made later. Scum on the other hand might find it necessary to nip it in the bud early lest it be brought up later.

Now we get some more pointing at You and shadow, which by itself is fine as you were the main people on the thread at that point

Fener, on Nov 24 2008, 06:07 PM, said:

At this point I am leaning towards shadow. Another to really make my senses tingle is Kaschan. Quiet, mid to low post first day, all joke posts. Exactly like Galain in 33, and Meanas in 34. Both Scum. In fact

vote Kaschan

I don't really expect anyone to follow me at this point, as there is not really much evidence. But on day one all you really have are your instincts and this is what mine are telling me.

Then after that stuff about you and shadow he goes and does this, which makes no sense at all, at that point just about everyone apart from the few main posters were midlevel with only joke posts, why kaschan. And then when you do vote kaschan why specifically say I dont expect anyone to follow me on this, that just removes all pressure that might have been in your vote, and doesnt give anyone any reason to believe you. So definitely looks like it could be a bit of distancing to me.

Fener, on Nov 24 2008, 10:59 PM, said:

I have a few minutes here,

Thoughts: Though not something I would do, I would tend to think Liosan's gambit did PI him and Anomander (Sil make of that what you will) Ano had a definate screw you attitude and I don't think Liosan, is killer...because he is really walking on Modkill territory there. As a killer he wouldn't need to take that kind of a gamble that early. The problem I see is, you set up 2 easy kills for the Killers the next 2 nights. All NK's are WIFOM but I feel I can pull some info from them, and the Killers can be sure they aren't hitting their symp. Lame.

More thoughts: It seems that the board is leaning towards taking out the more aggressive louder players most every game I have ever played in has had at least 1 killer in the quiet, low post, low content, area. ie Kasch, Thry, Tennes. I am more in favor of putting pressure on them and forcing them to play. ppl that play killer in that manner are more liable to slip up when forced to talk than say...grief/lish who have diarrhea of the fingers and post so much that its a chore just to wade through all the crap so that you can get a case, and they are used to talking so less likely to slip.

Of the loud talkers, Shadow comes off most as scum, the begging to remove votes thing really got to me, as well as Liosan's earlier point about not liking being fake symped. Just my 2 cents. I will keep my vote on Kasch in the hopes that we might pressure some non talkers, but if it was an hour to lynch and we needed info I would switch to shadow.

And here he says that Liosans ninja PIs him and Ano, well I dont see this, I can see how it PIs Ano because Anos reaction basically screamed that he was a roled inno and Liosan ninjaing him on first day was bad for the innos. But i dont see how it PIs Liosan as it just looks like a desperate attempt to muddy the waters and get a big event into day one that will be used for stuff, which is quite a good idea if your a symp., And some of Liosans behaviour has been sympish (not towards anyone in particular really but just in general)

So after that I am beginning to link kaschan,liosan and Fener in my head, but have nothing concrete as of yet and will go through the rest of his stuff and see if this continues or i change my mind.

This post has been edited by Thyrllan: 25 November 2008 - 11:24 PM

[Rashan]

It's entirely possible that my thought that Fener is inno is simply based on meta lol, going by who I thought he was, so please continue Thyr, I'm seing sense so far.

[Liosan]

Here, very briefly, but im not really meant 2 be.
As for why I wasnt looking at others, its mainly cause my computer was slow, and I couldnt look back easily, so large cases that involved lots of posts werent happening.
Im not going at people for contributing.
Im a lot happier that Rashan, Thyr, Fener etc are contributing.
Post more on others tommorow.

Shit, goodbye.

Edit: Fucking dog...

This post has been edited by Liosan: 25 November 2008 - 11:31 PM

[Thyrllan]

Ok after looking through Fener Part 2 by Rashan there isnt a lot there tbh, a bit of defending Liosans actions,
The he says this

Quote

I am actually voting Squiggly blue line guy. Mostly for low posting, all joke posts, and general laying lowness. Just trying to put pressure on the low post/non content people. But, like I said in a previous post general board consensus is to let these low postin players lay low till later in the week and then basically have to guess on who to vote off. Do a post search on me for more details, I only have a few smile.gif Seems everyone wants to vote off the vocal players once again. Honestly, whatever. Of the vocal players, I am leaning towards Kess or you.

Well as I stated earlier his comment removed about not expecting anyone to follow his vote and it being completely out of the blue removed all possible pressure from that vote so I cant see this, seems like he's trying to make up a justification for a distancing vote.
So yeah not a lot there that is changing my mind either way from what i read after Part oneWill now read Part 3 and see if theres any more there.

[Liosan]

Oh, and to clarify, I am not trying to focus everyone onto sil and Rashan, thats as stupid as ignoring them.
I just dont want them ignored.
Pretty sure ive achieved that now .

Anyway, i'll try to build cases tommorow, when im back.

A quick point-Gamelon seems to be very non-confrontational, and staying very low, unlike D'riss, Fener, Thyrllan etc, who at least appear to be trying to contribute.

Edit: Got to go.

This post has been edited by Liosan: 25 November 2008 - 11:37 PM

[Fener]

heh, you guys are funny, I try to take the conversation in another direction, awayfrom what everyone else is doing and have us look at low posters, and you accuse me of a distancing vote? ok, I guess you could see it that way. From now on I will make sure to have no original thoughts or ideas, and to go with the general flow. Gentlemen, behold! Your Sheep! Thats got us along pretty well so far. 3 innos down. yee haw! no wonder people are afraid to post. /sarcasm /end mini rant

This post has been edited by Fener: 25 November 2008 - 11:42 PM

[Silanah]

whatever we did seems to have worked, rashan, more than half the players are making a decent contribution.

@driss - when did i lump you in with liosan? tennes asked for my opinions, i commented on who i remmebered playing, if you werent on that list, its cause i missed you, if i missed you, your low posting and a danger. I aint lumping anyone with liosan, because sadly he is the only person i am not willling to vote for

@liosan - wahts wrong with your dog?

off to bed, back in like nine hours or something depending on traffic

[Tennes]

Right, I think I'll ask Liosan this for when he's on again, I didn't get round to it before because I was asking Sil and Rash stuff, but here goes:

Today you've been very belligerent, trying to keep everyone looking at Sil and Rash. Surely this can't be a purely "don't let them fade into obscurity!" ploy, because the discussion would definitely swing back around to them anyway? I get the feeling that you are just trying to push them because they are top of your list, but surely you should be taking the opportunity to push some of the low/mids while they're around, as opposed to Sil & Rash who are here an awful lot and will give you plenty of opportunities to do so later in the day?

Also, I'm still not quite sure what your Ninja fake-out was meant to be doing...it seemed awfully abrupt and provided very little information for the disruption it caused. Merely going for it because you wanted to try and prompt AnoGem into a 'How Did You Guess?!?!' moment does not seem like sufficient motive to me. It has gained you an awful lot - you now seem to have half the players feeling you're PI (can't say the same for the other half though), which I don't think you merit.

So, what I would like most of all when you get round to it (sorry to rehash yesterday's ground slightly, but I don't think it quite got enough discussion) is a clearer explanation of why you pulled that Fake Ninja stunt. I've generally been trying to keep the thread from getting too mired in back and forths today, so if you could explain why you thought it was necessary to do not one, but two, with Sil and Rash that would be nice also.

Thanks.


EDIT: Crosspost with Liosan. Well that kind of answers 50% of that post. Ah well.

This post has been edited by Tennes: 25 November 2008 - 11:45 PM

[D'riss]

Rashan, on Nov 25 2008, 06:16 PM, said:

2 users lurking and 8 anonymous users on the board altogether?
Stop neglecting your Mafia, people.

some of us try to do work with opne browsers
jeez

and what do I have to say aside from i've said already?
ok, a summary:

Rashan + Silanah- two naturally loudmouther posters, at each other's throats since day 1, taking a break now to let the rest post.
Rashan's getting some heat still. my personal distrust was based on a possible Shadow connection, with shadows CF, that's pretty much gone

Thyr--been quiet for a while but is contributing now. I like
Kas- quiet, content-less, apparently sick. Dislike, due to lack of content
Korlat- quiet, claims "it's his style". Possibly suspicious, but trying to post, I think he claimed RL distractions. IGMEOY, but note vote-worthy yet

Liosan-pulled a Khell Day 1 claiming to be ninja, supposedly to gauge Ano's reaction. Moronic move as inno, but 90% sure he's inno. Makes me hate him, but delays voting for him.

and then there are the three mid-rangers--Tennes, who some claim is my long-lost twin, Gamelon, who's keen on a Rashan lynch, and Fener.
all three basically think alike, as outlined by fener, have been helpful and somewht constructive, while not committing to much beyond the "Rashan's got some things about him, a likely lynch, I'll switch to lynch him"-type stuff.

now, off to do some work...

[D'riss]

Silanah, on Nov 25 2008, 06:43 PM, said:

whatever we did seems to have worked, rashan, more than half the players are making a decent contribution.

@driss - when did i lump you in with liosan? tennes asked for my opinions, i commented on who i remmebered playing, if you werent on that list, its cause i missed you, if i missed you, your low posting and a danger. I aint lumping anyone with liosan, because sadly he is the only person i am not willling to vote for

@liosan - wahts wrong with your dog?

off to bed, back in like nine hours or something depending on traffic

ahem:

Silanah, on Nov 25 2008, 05:58 PM, said:

Tennes, on Nov 25 2008, 10:20 PM, said:

@ Sil:

What surprised you about AnoGem getting NKed?
I know you want to turn the spotlight on people who aren't posting so much, but at the same time you seem to be directing most of your energies at Liosan. Why is that?
Among the lower posters, who do you find suspicious?


Cheers.

mostly because there was doubt springing up about liosan and him working together to engineer that fake, and that rashan had come out almost straight away with his oh they are defo PI and VPI which sent alarm bells rinign in my head. Also killing the main posters on day 1 would have pushed attention south in the posting list away from myself and rashan, but liosan is doing his damnest to keep it there. The reason i think this is odd is because both of us could be inno, but both of us are definitely not guilty, so removing one of the top level players in the discussion of day 1 effectively broadens the scope for day 2 and if rashan isnt a killer brings attention back on the killers. So it was surprising. People think ano was PI, but i didnt see it that way, especially when my top suspect announced it, then flip flopped when questioned by not only me but bent as well. that gem was an inno is certain and as i said before bad math means i wont vote for liosan, but they are doing their level best to keep attention away from everyone but me and rashan. its all fair and well saying we should look at eveyrone, but until he does i dont believe him.

As for the low posters, comment coming for thyr below. I havent checked the listing, but a fair few players dont seem to have gotten out of early day 1 mode and are still not contributing. there are a few people just commenting on cases and not making any.

gamelon has had some good posts so their low count doesnt bother so much, but it could easily be helpful killer, becuas eif you dont post that often it would be very easy to be so non commital.

kaschan - i honestly cant remember anything they said, liek seriously not one post has stood out.

fener - admitted to being a low poster, has made effort to be useful, says they dont have time. You either believ them or you dont. i see rashan built a case, i havent had the chance to read it.

driss - medium range poster, seems to follow peoples lead but does occassionally offer something new, no real vibe off them yet, but i rememnber a few people pointing out posts at one time or the other so worth a mention as one to watch.

you - seem to be there all the time, but you havent really made an impact and when someone puts pressure on your are there after to add the squeeze. your on my list, just not very high.

if i was to pick a low poster i would probably go for kaschan or thyrllan, but then we had -

Thyrllan, on Nov 25 2008, 10:34 PM, said:

Well earlier most of the attention was sort of swirling round the four main people, Shadow,Ano,Sil and Rash and now that 2 of those are dead, most of what we have from the other day is discussion about Sil and Rash and a ridiculous ninja by Liosan. Now Rash and Sil are trying to pull back a bit and put pressure on other people and get more things flowing which has just linked them together more despite any earlier distancing but as I think this is probably a good idea so we dont just get bogged down killing everyone who posted lots on day. Now Liosan is interesting, I think it is possible he is a symp and his master is somewhere in the group not in the limelight as he is making some goodish points about this step back from play by rash and sil and is trying to keep people looking at them.
I havent really got much of a read on any other players although Kaschans symp boss play with rashan was interesting as he just changed tack in the middle of it and decided to embrace the symping when an earlier post was Symp me and youll get lynched, but thats all I remember about him and its not enough to convince me of guilt.
Cant think at all of what Korlats done so will check that in a minute as it shouldnt take too long.
At the moment Fener Driss and Tennes are just blending together for me and Im finding it hard to seperate which of them has said what.

first decent post i remember fromthem, they make a few strong points and agree with me or at least see wher ei was coming from atthe start of the day so that helps. he could just be picking a side and following who he thinks most likely to get the lynch. its hard to decide on soemone when their one piece of content is to agree with you.

Liosan, on Nov 25 2008, 10:33 PM, said:

Also, the two of you have slightly over-reacted.

Silanah has basically tried to rubbish anything I say by throwing doubt on me.
You refused to defend, and a few of your posts before that defense stop, made you look more scummy. To your credit you are contributing, but before I raised a load of shit about it, and people(not just me) saying they wanted you to continue contributing, you didnt, so it could just be another way of hiding.

Liosan, on Nov 25 2008, 10:40 PM, said:

We shouldnt ignore anyone. At all. Unless they are 100% CI.
Its just stupid.
We must look at everyone.
And Im gonna have to go to bed shortly.

sorry for answer you points liosan, you said its scummy to hide, when all i said wa si wasnt going to make a case on rashan till tomorrow in a bid to let others get involved. now when people do contribute you are calling that scummy, there comes a point where you have to put up or shut up, because you cant sit there and look at someone and go this is scummy, so they move and do the opposite and you go thats scummy, or else i am just going to believe you want us to think everything they do is scummy.

plus is there an echo in here? are you and driss the same person(double & now triple posts)? you say we should look at everyone but your focused on us two? wheres your insight on everyone else?

edited to add post clarification

I was responding to the Italics
I am most certainly NOT writing th esame htings as Liosan. in fact, I disagree with him on a number of key issues (such as, should we lynch rashan)

[Path-Shaper]

ah well. I'll be going to bed in a short while, so you'll be admin less for some time, all depending on the others in SH. IF nothing else I should be back early tomorow morning.

[Thyrllan]

Rashan, on Nov 25 2008, 10:25 PM, said:

Fener Part Three

Ok from this bit most of the stuff seems to be in thi sbig post.

Fener, on Nov 25 2008, 09:03 PM, said:

Ok here are my thoughts-

Rashan- I think is probably a symp he is doinf a really good job of muddying the waters, constantly fighting with Ano (CI) though he was a PI to me at the time of the fighting. He immediately switched to a Liosan vote after the fakey move, that is a sly move as no one can question it and his killer can likely safely vote there as well. And the big big thing for symp behavior is his absolute certainty that he will CF inno. He has brought it up more than once. JA pulled that crap in 32. He was the symp there, and Rashan is acting eerily similar. Of course you ask..who is he symping, not sure atm, though his "Fener seems inno" comment would point the finger at me, If I was a killer I would be pissed if my symp was so obvious. More likely a misdirection.
Me: right, yes, symp, we've heard that before. Ano was NOT a CI when I was fighting him, and if your gonna cal on that, then don't forget the fact I was defending someone who was also labelled a CI later. Fener seems inno, but I'm looking at you now, and I don't know. There's hints.
Why exactly was Ano (PI) at the time Rashan was fighting with him, this was before the ninja attack, so at that point Rashans argument had merit, Ano was voting based on spam but going after the second biggest spammer.

Korlat- Seems inno to me, he attacked shadow and even admitted to probably voting shadow come lynch time... but his story is consistent and the vote was more based on posting style than anything else.
Comments on style and says seems inno. Ive yet to go over Korlat so I'll take that with a grain of salt, thanks.

Liosan- I am going to allow myself to VPI him for the time being. If he isn't dead in a few nights we will need to seriously consider offing him to rest the collective conscious. I just can't wrap my head around a killer taking that kind of Modkill risk.
Modkill risk and says he's pretty much cleared Lios. Says we may need to kill him to stop the arguing later... Hmmm
More defending Liosans actions. advocating leaving him alive till later. I still cant see why he's so adamant that Liosans ninja fake makes him seem innocent.

Gamelon- He tends to think like me, so I am giving him the benifit of the doubt for now. Though....his posting style only changed to more active after being called out on Tennes post. (It could just be a coincidence/playing tim issue though)
"Plays like me,"and Benefit of doubt because of that. Very analytical. Comments on playing style again.

Tennes- Initially tried to stop Wrestle Mania XXXI (Shadow vs. Rash) to try to find killers. If I was a killer I wouldn't want them to stop. So a point in his favor there. On post 174 he does go after Rash a bit which is also thinking like me. and I liked his list on the low posters. @ Tennes I didn't vote Kasch just because he was a low poster, it was a combination of three things: low post count, no substance, and gut feeling. Though I also have low post count, I try to have substance in my posts and my gut feeling on me is usually right
Playing style once more. Says goin after me is thinking like him. It's also thinking like the entire nation of China atm. Liked the anti-low-poster business, AGAIN. Defends himself for posting low.
These 2 seem to be to me stating that the other 2 play like him and that makes them innocent. To me this seems to be him stating that he's playing in an innocent way without actually coming straight out and saying it which would arouse suspicion.

Silanah- I keep going back and forth on him, initially I thought scum, then I thoughtinno, now I am not sure. I don't think holding back is a good idea. He has good insight and usually gives me a different perspective on things which I find very helpful (though often frustrating )One big thing is that he was really giving it to shadow yesterday. Knowing Shadow is CI it makes me wonder..... I would encourage you to still post, just don't dominate
Licks a bit of ass and doesn't commit.

Thyr- He is my number 1 killer suspect. No posts what-so-ever 9 I think then after Anno comes up CI after having not posted forever he pops in to say.."Well that didn't help us as we knew the killers were going to do that anyway" did we??? I didn't. How did you? That is his only post of semi substance that I can see. Right now he is my #1
Attacks Thyrr. i can see why lol.
Im his number one killer suspect, yet he voted for kaschan, for those reasons he put there, none of which had really changed at this point.

Kaschan- Same as yesterday Gut feeling, low poster, somewhat trying to get involved. I just have a bad feeling and seeing as he gives us nothing to go off of I would be willing to vote. I HATE getting to endgame and have it be : Thyr, Kasch, Me and Korlat. I mean really... wtf would you vote for??? Better to get them out early. I realize if he pops up inno I will be under some heavy pressure, but, bring it.
Vote STILL there. Hmmm... Doesn't seem to care whether Kaschan is inno or not, goes by gut reaction. This could be Killer distancing, as no one was likely to go for Kaschan, Killer certainty, or most likely, inno being foolish.
Still isnt really giving much substance on the thing against Kaschan, I agree it does very much seem like a distancing vote to me.

D'riss- Mor sympish feeling for me than killer. Has become a little more active lately. Was certain there was a Rash/Shadow connection which there wasn't. Most early posts revolve around a Rash/Shadow connection. One thing kind of fishy was that he followed Rash onto and then quickly off of the Liosan fakey move. pretty obvious but then you get into WIFOM.
Liosan comes back into it. Not much to say about this, really. Everyone thought there was a connection. I half thought there was myself lmao.
One thing, In his list Rashan didn't mention Thyr, or Kash- Could be cause there is little to go on, but that is a good excuse to leave your killer of your list.


Thats all I have for now, just gave up my whole lunch break to type this out lol. Let m eknow what you think

Fener, on Nov 25 2008, 09:11 PM, said:

Liosan, on Nov 25 2008, 01:06 PM, said:

Rashan, on Nov 25 2008, 10:23 PM, said:

It's not the discussion that's the problem, it's the fact that most players seem happy
to simply watch the whole thing unfold and not post anything constructive. Read over the thread. The argument I, Shadow, Ano and Silanah had took up the entire thread for a number of pages. I'm not saying I won't discuss things. I'm saying I won't focus on Silanah. I'm perfectly open to making cases on other players, in fact.
And mate? Oh no, heavens no, a term used between two people who know who each other outside of their alts? Christ, we must be scum. Just like me and Bent were scum for being somewhat courteous to each other and defending each other.
Edit: bloody crosspost

Thats exactly what you and sil are saying you're gonna do though, sit back. Yes they shouldnt. Neither should you.

Rashan, on Nov 25 2008, 10:29 PM, said:

Oh, and for the record Liosan, being dragged out into the open is bad when its for foundless reasons other than to discuss players who have already been discussed to death. You're really being antagonistic here, putting a sinister slant on absolutely everything, and doing your very best to pull me into an argument. Which will serve absolutely no point. Except to muddy the waters again, and waste valuable time which could be used on other cases.
*cough*symp behaviour*cough*

And this post is basically stating thats its now "scummy" to look at you and silanah. When the fuck did you two become CI. If you've been discussed before, its generally because you've been suspicious before.
Are you saying to discuss someone thats already been discussed, for completely different reasons, is now "scummy" aswell.
Its basically just saying:

Even though you have completely no reason to trust me or silanah, its pointless looking at us. In fact, its a scum tactic to discuss us any further.

I agree 100%

There is no reason to stop contributing.

Ok this post just seems pointless, he comes in says I agree with liosan.
Nothing of worth, rather ironic considering the point of this post.

Ok after looking through these Fener posts I'm definitely not liking the way he keeps defending Liosan religiously almost and keeps subtly mentionning the fact that he voted kaschan for being a low poster but not actually putting much behind it that may make people follow his lead. So
Vote Fener

[Rashan]

Thyrr- Bravo. We have possible killers... Kaschan-Fener, Fener-Liosan, or my favourite, Liosan-Kaschan with Fener as a symp... Anyone got any comments?

[Rashan]

Fener, on Nov 25 2008, 11:41 PM, said:

heh, you guys are funny, I try to take the conversation in another direction, awayfrom what everyone else is doing and have us look at low posters, and you accuse me of a distancing vote? ok, I guess you could see it that way. From now on I will make sure to have no original thoughts or ideas, and to go with the general flow. Gentlemen, behold! Your Sheep! Thats got us along pretty well so far. 3 innos down. yee haw! no wonder people are afraid to post. /sarcasm /end mini rant

I said you were most likely inno, actually. This seems to me to be a gross over-reaction.

[Fener]

Thyrllan, on Nov 25 2008, 03:54 PM, said:

Rashan, on Nov 25 2008, 10:25 PM, said:

Fener Part Three

Ok from this bit most of the stuff seems to be in thi sbig post.

Fener, on Nov 25 2008, 09:03 PM, said:

Ok here are my thoughts-

Rashan- I think is probably a symp he is doinf a really good job of muddying the waters, constantly fighting with Ano (CI) though he was a PI to me at the time of the fighting. He immediately switched to a Liosan vote after the fakey move, that is a sly move as no one can question it and his killer can likely safely vote there as well. And the big big thing for symp behavior is his absolute certainty that he will CF inno. He has brought it up more than once. JA pulled that crap in 32. He was the symp there, and Rashan is acting eerily similar. Of course you ask..who is he symping, not sure atm, though his "Fener seems inno" comment would point the finger at me, If I was a killer I would be pissed if my symp was so obvious. More likely a misdirection.
Me: right, yes, symp, we've heard that before. Ano was NOT a CI when I was fighting him, and if your gonna cal on that, then don't forget the fact I was defending someone who was also labelled a CI later. Fener seems inno, but I'm looking at you now, and I don't know. There's hints.
Why exactly was Ano (PI) at the time Rashan was fighting with him, this was before the ninja attack, so at that point Rashans argument had merit, Ano was voting based on spam but going after the second biggest spammer.

I have said this before I considered Ano PI because of his " Liosan you are an idiot" comment after the fakey move.

Korlat- Seems inno to me, he attacked shadow and even admitted to probably voting shadow come lynch time... but his story is consistent and the vote was more based on posting style than anything else.
Comments on style and says seems inno. Ive yet to go over Korlat so I'll take that with a grain of salt, thanks.

Liosan- I am going to allow myself to VPI him for the time being. If he isn't dead in a few nights we will need to seriously consider offing him to rest the collective conscious. I just can't wrap my head around a killer taking that kind of Modkill risk.
Modkill risk and says he's pretty much cleared Lios. Says we may need to kill him to stop the arguing later... Hmmm
More defending Liosans actions. advocating leaving him alive till later. I still cant see why he's so adamant that Liosans ninja fake makes him seem innocent.

I have said this before too. I feel like it would take huge balls for a killer to pull off this move. I can't see a killer on day 1 risking this. He will die at some point. I have said before as well that is was a stupid stupid move to pull off...but aparently in all of my symping of Liosan you forgot that part.

Gamelon- He tends to think like me, so I am giving him the benifit of the doubt for now. Though....his posting style only changed to more active after being called out on Tennes post. (It could just be a coincidence/playing tim issue though)
"Plays like me,"and Benefit of doubt because of that. Very analytical. Comments on playing style again.

Tennes- Initially tried to stop Wrestle Mania XXXI (Shadow vs. Rash) to try to find killers. If I was a killer I wouldn't want them to stop. So a point in his favor there. On post 174 he does go after Rash a bit which is also thinking like me. and I liked his list on the low posters. @ Tennes I didn't vote Kasch just because he was a low poster, it was a combination of three things: low post count, no substance, and gut feeling. Though I also have low post count, I try to have substance in my posts and my gut feeling on me is usually right
Playing style once more. Says goin after me is thinking like him. It's also thinking like the entire nation of China atm. Liked the anti-low-poster business, AGAIN. Defends himself for posting low.
These 2 seem to be to me stating that the other 2 play like him and that makes them innocent. To me this seems to be him stating that he's playing in an innocent way without actually coming straight out and saying it which would arouse suspicion.

I am stating that they have stated things I have thought about. Knowing I am inno wouldn't that make me suspect they are inno??

Silanah- I keep going back and forth on him, initially I thought scum, then I thoughtinno, now I am not sure. I don't think holding back is a good idea. He has good insight and usually gives me a different perspective on things which I find very helpful (though often frustrating )One big thing is that he was really giving it to shadow yesterday. Knowing Shadow is CI it makes me wonder..... I would encourage you to still post, just don't dominate
Licks a bit of ass and doesn't commit.

Thyr- He is my number 1 killer suspect. No posts what-so-ever 9 I think then after Anno comes up CI after having not posted forever he pops in to say.."Well that didn't help us as we knew the killers were going to do that anyway" did we??? I didn't. How did you? That is his only post of semi substance that I can see. Right now he is my #1
Attacks Thyrr. i can see why lol.
Im his number one killer suspect, yet he voted for kaschan, for those reasons he put there, none of which had really changed at this point.

The thing that changed is your reaction to the CF on Gem. It started the alarm bells.

Kaschan- Same as yesterday Gut feeling, low poster, somewhat trying to get involved. I just have a bad feeling and seeing as he gives us nothing to go off of I would be willing to vote. I HATE getting to endgame and have it be : Thyr, Kasch, Me and Korlat. I mean really... wtf would you vote for??? Better to get them out early. I realize if he pops up inno I will be under some heavy pressure, but, bring it.
Vote STILL there. Hmmm... Doesn't seem to care whether Kaschan is inno or not, goes by gut reaction. This could be Killer distancing, as no one was likely to go for Kaschan, Killer certainty, or most likely, inno being foolish.
Still isnt really giving much substance on the thing against Kaschan, I agree it does very much seem like a distancing vote to me.

I never said there was substance!!!! it was day 1. I was trying to get people to look in other directions and I was suspecting him so I tried to get people to look in new areas.

D'riss- Mor sympish feeling for me than killer. Has become a little more active lately. Was certain there was a Rash/Shadow connection which there wasn't. Most early posts revolve around a Rash/Shadow connection. One thing kind of fishy was that he followed Rash onto and then quickly off of the Liosan fakey move. pretty obvious but then you get into WIFOM.
Liosan comes back into it. Not much to say about this, really. Everyone thought there was a connection. I half thought there was myself lmao.
One thing, In his list Rashan didn't mention Thyr, or Kash- Could be cause there is little to go on, but that is a good excuse to leave your killer of your list.


Thats all I have for now, just gave up my whole lunch break to type this out lol. Let m eknow what you think

Fener, on Nov 25 2008, 09:11 PM, said:

Liosan, on Nov 25 2008, 01:06 PM, said:

Rashan, on Nov 25 2008, 10:23 PM, said:

It's not the discussion that's the problem, it's the fact that most players seem happy
to simply watch the whole thing unfold and not post anything constructive. Read over the thread. The argument I, Shadow, Ano and Silanah had took up the entire thread for a number of pages. I'm not saying I won't discuss things. I'm saying I won't focus on Silanah. I'm perfectly open to making cases on other players, in fact.
And mate? Oh no, heavens no, a term used between two people who know who each other outside of their alts? Christ, we must be scum. Just like me and Bent were scum for being somewhat courteous to each other and defending each other.
Edit: bloody crosspost

Thats exactly what you and sil are saying you're gonna do though, sit back. Yes they shouldnt. Neither should you.

Rashan, on Nov 25 2008, 10:29 PM, said:

Oh, and for the record Liosan, being dragged out into the open is bad when its for foundless reasons other than to discuss players who have already been discussed to death. You're really being antagonistic here, putting a sinister slant on absolutely everything, and doing your very best to pull me into an argument. Which will serve absolutely no point. Except to muddy the waters again, and waste valuable time which could be used on other cases.
*cough*symp behaviour*cough*

And this post is basically stating thats its now "scummy" to look at you and silanah. When the fuck did you two become CI. If you've been discussed before, its generally because you've been suspicious before.
Are you saying to discuss someone thats already been discussed, for completely different reasons, is now "scummy" aswell.
Its basically just saying:

Even though you have completely no reason to trust me or silanah, its pointless looking at us. In fact, its a scum tactic to discuss us any further.

I agree 100%

There is no reason to stop contributing.

Ok this post just seems pointless, he comes in says I agree with liosan.

The point of the post was to agree that I think those 2 should keep contributing, I came in and contributed by saying that... ironic?

Nothing of worth, rather ironic considering the point of this post.

Ok after looking through these Fener posts I'm definitely not liking the way he keeps defending Liosan religiously almost and keeps subtly mentionning the fact that he voted kaschan for being a low poster but not actually putting much behind it that may make people follow his lead. So
Vote Fener

I'm sorry, your "case" holds no water and to me, comes off as an OMGUS vote because I have you as my number 1 suspect. I will be interested to get others takes on this. I am out for an hour. Back in a bit.

[Tennes]

Rashan, on Nov 25 2008, 11:58 PM, said:

Thyrr- Bravo. We have possible killers... Kaschan-Fener, Fener-Liosan, or my favourite, Liosan-Kaschan with Fener as a symp... Anyone got any comments?

Well, obviously you've left out any combinations involving yourself, but then I guess that's hardly surprising.


I was getting vague symp vibes from D'riss in the direction of Silanah at one point...very weak ones though, based on him having a tendency to emphasize you whenever the high posters are mentioned and dropping Sil to be background, but there's not much to it really.

Then I guess there's yourself and possibly Gamelon...I can see that squabble the pair of you had during the night phase as distancing, actually, especially this:

Gamelon said:

But now, since the scene he's been posting comments that raise my hair so much I'm afraid to go out of the office in case the boss sees me and thinks I'm in a punk band.

Which is such a canned line that I can't help but wonder if it was a collaborative effort.

In any case, none of these are particularly strong, but I figure if you're putting that Kaschan/Liosan/Fener triangle on the table I might as well add these.

[D'riss]

Hmm
I am still having trouble wrappin my head around the idea that Liosan as scum would pull such a stunt. Not to say it's impossible, but unlikely of th e highest caliber.
I can buy that he's distancing from Kas, though.
saying "I want to put pressure on X" and then right after "I don't expect anyone will follow me in the vote on X" is kind of redundant, as it defets the purpose of the original vote.

So, I can see the Fener-Kas connection. fener-Liosan--not so much. and Liosan-Kas--almost nonexistant, except for Liosan's stubborn refusal to look beyond Rashan and Silanah all day long.

This post has been edited by D'riss: 26 November 2008 - 12:17 AM