[Bent]

Just wanted to drop in and say Happy Thanksgiving to all you non americans. And just an FYI, most of us are off work both today and tomorrow.

[Thyrllan]

Gah I come back after a walk and finish my read up of D'riss's stuff to discover you 2 have done it already and come to the same conclusions anyway looking at his posts there I couldnt really see much that tied him really to anyone or anything overtly scummy, although that post that gamelon found is a good catch. The only thing I did notice that stood out strongly was the fact that he hasnt actually attacked anyone or strongly opposed much , he seems to be being very friendly and almost going with the flow, I dont like this at all it appears as though he is trying to make everyone like him and think of him as an ally.

[Path-Shaper]

It's day 3. There's 27 hours and 45 minutes left of the day

8 players remain:
Thyrllan, Kaschan, D'riss, Korlat, Liosan, Gamelon, Fener, Silanah

5 votes needed to lynch
4 votes needed to go to night

2 vote for D'riss (Gamelon, Silanah)

Players who have not voted:
Thyrllan, Kaschan, D'riss, Korlat, Liosan, Fener

[Liosan]

Im back.
Work experience was really boring, had to drink lots of fizzy drinks and coffee to stop me falling asleep.

Got judo later on tonight, gonna go re-read.

[Liosan]

Well, im not sure about Kaschan, or D'riss, but they do seem a bit scummy.
However, we have ages, hours and hours.
Im not gonna make any kind of vote just now, and would prefer it if there wasnt a speed lynch of anyone, because we really need to consider this.

Also, well played Sir Thursday.

Edit: Im out for a bit.

This post has been edited by Liosan: 27 November 2008 - 05:24 PM

[Silanah]

 Thyrllan, on Nov 27 2008, 04:29 PM, said:

Gah I come back after a walk and finish my read up of D'riss's stuff to discover you 2 have done it already and come to the same conclusions anyway looking at his posts there I couldnt really see much that tied him really to anyone or anything overtly scummy, although that post that gamelon found is a good catch. The only thing I did notice that stood out strongly was the fact that he hasnt actually attacked anyone or strongly opposed much , he seems to be being very friendly and almost going with the flow, I dont like this at all it appears as though he is trying to make everyone like him and think of him as an ally.

thats it? no refution of the claims i made linking you two. Its not the first time someone has you two linked and now that we think driss is scum you ignore that side of things and say you thought as much?

i'm stunned at that powerful conclusion, would you mind addressing it in slightly more depth please. Why is he constantly defending you? can you see any connections between him and kaschan? who would you prefer to lynch and why?

[Thyrllan]

Ok how exactly are we linked? I know you mentioned something about me, Rashan and D'riss yesterday. All I can see is the fact that they both suddenly went all puppyeyed over me when I started making a post, and while that did seem slightly odd, and has me worried I may be being set up, I dont know what else is causing us to be linked.

[Thyrllan]

Ok well im off out now, will be back on way before day is over probably so Il leave my vote off for now.

[D'riss]

Shit, that's a monster of a case.
unfortunately (get ready to hate me for this), i'm ridiculously busy rigth now. the Display thing's happening and I have to help set it up.
I WILL address the entire case against me, post by post, but it won't be untill I get home. and I have a night make-up lecture today, so it won't be for a while.
But I WILL adress it.
okay, fuck gtg. sorry again,guys.

[Path-Shaper]

It's day 3. There's about 25 hours left of the day

8 players remain:
Thyrllan, Kaschan, D'riss, Korlat, Liosan, Gamelon, Fener, Silanah

5 votes needed to lynch
4 votes needed to go to night

2 vote for D'riss (Gamelon, Silanah)

Players who have not voted:
Thyrllan, Kaschan, D'riss, Korlat, Liosan, Fener

[Gamelon]

Could we request an early week-end break considering the US holyday?

[Path-Shaper]

Humh.. very well. I'll stop the clock at midnight tonight

[Korlat]

I have to second that - I want to start participating more but won't be around at all for the next 5 or more hours.

And the Americans won't be around either, they've got to catch up on the D'riss case, wait for a response, and then reply to it, think about it - we'd be unlikely to get a lynch.

EDIT: Cross with Path-Shaper

This post has been edited by Korlat: 27 November 2008 - 08:29 PM

[Silanah]

are you going to comment on it? or better yet place a vote so when others come on they can discuss it.

What do you think of the way driss defended thyr a few times, obviously thyrllan doesn tthink they are linked or wont admit on thread nayway. can you see anything there? if driss came back inno who would you suspect? which of driss or kaschan would you prefer to lynch today? if driss came back guilty who would you think is his partner / symp?

any answer to any of these questions would be useful from you korlat, or anyone else for that matter.

[Kaschan]

I didn't really take a look at your case. I hopped on for a minute did a quick reread to see what had happened then posted that I was gone. Then I had a couple of extra minutes before bed so I got on again and said that I wasn't going to be on very much today. Now that I have looked over your case your right. Me questioning Fener on how he knew that Ano was roled was a very big no no and I should be lynched for it. If I hadn't been on so much medication I wouldn't have made that or several other posts. Including my nice rant post. What can you do. I still suspect Thyrllan but would be willing to vote for D'riss as the case on him is pretty good. I am off for to my in-laws for Dinner. I should be able to get on in a couple hours and will vote then. As I admit that some of my posts are bad I don't have a problem with you guys voting me off. I do like the D'riss and Thyrllan connection.

[Path-Shaper]

Weeked freeze is in effect, starting now. Clock will restart on Monday at 12:00 GMT

It's day 3. Weekend freeze is in effect

8 players remain:
Thyrllan, Kaschan, D'riss, Korlat, Liosan, Gamelon, Fener, Silanah

5 votes needed to lynch
4 votes needed to go to night

2 vote for D'riss (Gamelon, Silanah)

Players who have not voted:
Thyrllan, Kaschan, D'riss, Korlat, Liosan, Fener

[Thyrllan]

 Silanah, on Nov 27 2008, 09:10 PM, said:

are you going to comment on it? or better yet place a vote so when others come on they can discuss it.

What do you think of the way driss defended thyr a few times, obviously thyrllan doesn tthink they are linked or wont admit on thread nayway. can you see anything there? if driss came back inno who would you suspect? which of driss or kaschan would you prefer to lynch today? if driss came back guilty who would you think is his partner / symp?

any answer to any of these questions would be useful from you korlat, or anyone else for that matter.

ok ibviously I dont think were linked as I'm an inno who doesnt have a link but I Would like to hear your evidence (seriously) I'm Really drunk now so I wont be making a case.

[D'riss]

Oki, stareting with the original case.

 Gamelon, on Nov 27 2008, 05:19 AM, said:

By the way, I had time to do a re-read of the Liosan ninja stunt, and I have to say it doesn't compute. I can't understand why an inno would think that's a smart idea, and I can't understand what would have pushed a scum to act like this at the time.

Liosan had a vote on Shadow, and so did Anomander. Anomander was arguing with Shadow and Rashan, none of which were killers. His comment during the ninja was "please shut up Anomander!", while what Ano was doing was fighting against the one Liosan wanted lynched at the time.

This was absolutely retarded, I can't wait to see what PMs he sent at the time to SH. But still, if it was scum activity I fail to see what it was.


One post that caught my eye during that reread is this one:

 D'riss, on Nov 24 2008, 10:27 PM, said:

remove vote
Vote Liosan

if he's dead it doesn't matter, if he's lying to us, he deserves to die.

EDIT: cross-post with the mod
vote stays tho

He was quickly followed by Rashan after that. Now, I undestand that shit is annoying, but before you put a vote you should ask yourself is it is scummy. In a game, nobody "deserves to die" because of something annoying. It looked like a forced push to get a lynch on what he thought would become an easy target for the day 1 lynch, as it usually takes little.

ok, I obviously cannot speak for Rashan's reasons to vote, since I'm not him. My own reasons were
1) I have been burned by fake-reveals a la Khell several times, and hate them pathologically.
2) it removed the last shadows of the doubts who was behind the Liosan alt, and that made my irritation worse. It was an agro vote and I will not deny that it may not have been smart, but I get flashes of rage at fake reveals like that.

Add to this that I still never found myself nodding at anything D'riss said during the game. He's always around, commenting, but never daring anything or exploring options. Yesterday he didn't do much except complaining whenever anyone was connecting him anyone else, correcting vote counts (showing he's following very intently despite the laid-back attitude) and putting Rashan at L-1 for being "overdramatic"

And posts like this:

 D'riss, on Nov 26 2008, 07:28 PM, said:

ok, I see no reason for Liosan's hysteria that would be valid.

I'm tempted to vote him now. really tempted
Kas: no offence, but your Thyr vote won't get you anywhere tonight. seems we're choosing between Liosan and Rashan
voting off a symp goes agains most everyhting I stand for in mafia... but aside from his assault on Rash and Silanah, I can't for the life of me remeber him talkiing to anyone else in a way that might constitute "symping"

With 10 hours left in the day and nobody having more than two votes show that he's trying to create an (absent) situation since he likes it a lot. He keeps repeating it:

Please bear in mind the context of this. I was responding to Kas' post where he's informing us that he may miss the lynch alltogether. Now, I do not know about you, but from the point Liosan got on, Day 2 was al about him and Rashan. Their discussion got to a point, at which it was my understanding, one of them would be lynched. The vote distribtion, from people's intentions, was somewhat even. It would require 6 votes to lynch, and with Korlat being unreliable, Thyr and Kas both questioning if they'd come back, the situatoinn was looking like a POSSIBLE no-lynch. I wanted to avoid that, as the remaining votes were being split between Rashan and Liosan, with people declaring strongly for both.

 D'riss, on Nov 26 2008, 10:54 PM, said:

Korlat, there's still some (though allegedly, not that much) time in the day, and we can still dredge up something, maybe.

I am not liking the vote distribution much atm, btw.

moving on a bit:
Kas' excuse strikes me as just plain weird--did he not read the entire last day?
it's crystal clear to me that either Losan or Rashan are up for the chop today, yet he chooses to keep a vote on Thyr, and tlls us he may not be back till after deadline. What is up with that?

Okay, same explanation as above, for the same reason.

For now I'll

vote D'riss

But I'm open to discussions

[D'riss]

 Gamelon, on Nov 27 2008, 10:46 AM, said:

In the whole game D'riss hasn't made a single case, of put pressure on anyone. He has only three votes, never because of a case of his, even someone else's:

 D'riss, on Nov 24 2008, 06:21 PM, said:

oh, for crying out loud

vote rashan
I'm not even caught up, and I'm already lsing track because of him...

 D'riss, on Nov 24 2008, 10:27 PM, said:

remove vote
Vote Liosan

if he's dead it doesn't matter, if he's lying to us, he deserves to die.

EDIT: cross-post with the mod
vote stays tho

and

 D'riss, on Nov 26 2008, 11:28 PM, said:

oh, ffs
I hate when people take this over-dramatic tone. make you seem innocent an makes me question "wtf am I doing?"

you begging me to place a vote to assure a lynch doesn't fill me with confidence either.
I'm probably gonna be twinned with Tennes (AGAIN!) for this, but you've asked so nicely..

vote Rashan

oh, and a major crosspost...

Everything else is either explaining his availability (nothing wrong with that btw), commenting on the game, responding to accusations of "associations". As for his view of other players, he's never looking for suspicious stuff, just "associations":

 D'riss, on Nov 24 2008, 06:43 PM, said:

With that utterly silly accusation out of the way, let's get more serious
if Rashan is indeed a filthy scum that's evil, who may his partner/master be?

 D'riss, on Nov 25 2008, 03:57 AM, said:

I am almost certain there's a connection between Rashan and Shadow--but, alas I can't be sure if it's just meta-induced, or is it a genuine in-game connection along the lines of paired killers or killer-symp

 D'riss, on Nov 25 2008, 08:59 PM, said:

Rashan's subtle attempts to PI Fener peak my curiosity.
I'm gonna go ,ook into that.

 D'riss, on Nov 26 2008, 01:17 AM, said:

Hmm
I am still having trouble wrappin my head around the idea that Liosan as scum would pull such a stunt. Not to say it's impossible, but unlikely of th e highest caliber.
I can buy that he's distancing from Kas, though.
saying "I want to put pressure on X" and then right after "I don't expect anyone will follow me in the vote on X" is kind of redundant, as it defets the purpose of the original vote.

So, I can see the Fener-Kas connection. fener-Liosan--not so much. and Liosan-Kas--almost nonexistant, except for Liosan's stubborn refusal to look beyond Rashan and Silanah all day long.

 D'riss, on Nov 26 2008, 04:06 AM, said:

has there been ANY interaction between Gamelon and Kaschan, actually? I don't seem to recall much...

In all his posts, I didn't see a single one where D'riss made a case on someone else. Lots of "I don't like X" or "I would vote Y", but never an organized reference to posts or behavior he finds scummy. And that's from a high poster making numerous comments about other player's amount of content.

He said most of yesterday he was willing to vote Kaschan off, but in a situation where Kaschan and Liosan each had 1 vote, instead of putting his vote where his mouth is, starts saying that the days is "between Rashan and Liosan", and procrastinates until close to the end of day to add the easy L-1 vote.

ok, that is not QUITE true... I have made a small case on Fener, but I did not include quotes, because at that point he had 12. And I was in a rush (this week's a bitch and busy, and its the last one before exams). It was on Day2, towards the beginning. post 636
I looked at Fener, because Rashan seemed to defend him, and he Rashan was the one under suspicion at that point.
Aside from that, I did not make cases, because the two people that looked scummy to me at the time --the low posters, were thoroughly covered by Rashan, and I felt that making another case, quoting the dsame meagre repertoire and coming up with basically the same conclusions would be redundant.

I WAS willing to vote Kaschan, but, unlike him, I saw where the thread was heading--both Gamelon and Silanah made it clear they wanted Rashan gone, Liosan pretty uppity about it as well. There was one other person who expressed any interest in the Kas vote--and that was Thyr, who left saying he may not be back till lynch, keeping his vote on Fener.
I asked Kas the first time with 10 hours left on the clock
Liosan had 4 votes due to his self vote
Rashan had 2 votes--both determined to stay there
2 of the more silent players left , keeping their votes on singular players where they wouldn't do much. Korlat, with his erratic posting hours was a maybe, and there was no guarantees he'd show up before the lynch.
We werefacing a deadlock, and day'd expire at the point when the majority of you'd still be asleep (1 AM my time)
I knew the math, and I thought we needed a lynch, so I asked him not to waste his vote. if you think that's worth a lynch, go ahead.
As for the general accusations of me not contributing much and playing passively.
I am sorry, I really am. I'll most likely drop out of Yellow's game, too, because I have 3 back to back exams next week and a paper due before those. I have endless piles of work, and in retrospect I probably shouldn't have played this either.
btw, in case I'm rambling, that's probably b/c I'm falling asleep slowly.

but yes.
the main accusations against me is that I did not make cases--which I tried to, at least about fener, a while back, that I told Kas to switch his vote when I saw him potentially wasting it,and that I was passive, which is due to me being swamped with stuff to do, constantly.
and yes, I know there's the supposed "killer slip-up"
i'll adress that in the next post, once I find where I wrote it.

This post has been edited by D'riss: 28 November 2008 - 05:23 AM

[D'riss]

okay, found it:
taking out all other people from the FEner quote to make it shorter.

 D'riss, on Nov 25 2008, 04:11 PM, said:

 Fener, on Nov 25 2008, 04:03 PM, said:

Ok here are my thoughts-

Rashan- I think is probably a symp he is doinf a really good job of muddying the waters, constantly fighting with Ano (CI) though he was a PI to me at the time of the fighting. He immediately switched to a Liosan vote after the fakey move, that is a sly move as no one can question it and his killer can likely safely vote there as well. And the big big thing for symp behavior is his absolute certainty that he will CF inno. He has brought it up more than once. JA pulled that crap in 32. He was the symp there, and Rashan is acting eerily similar. Of course you ask..who is he symping, not sure atm, though his "Fener seems inno" comment would point the finger at me, If I was a killer I would be pissed if my symp was so obvious. More likely a misdirection.


D'riss- Mor sympish feeling for me than killer. Has become a little more active lately. Was certain there was a Rash/Shadow connection which there wasn't. Most early posts revolve around a Rash/Shadow connection. [i]One thing kind of fishy was that he followed Rash onto and then quickly off of the Liosan fakey move. pretty obvious but then you get into WIFOM.

for one thing, Rashan followed me on a Liosan train
it may make me look suspect, but I absolutely hate fake reveals a la khell (go ahead, guess away ), so it was an agro switch more than anyting. the fact that Rash followed me on it would piss me off were he my symp.
Thyr and Kash are both the kinds of players I hate--especially Thyr--out of his meager 9 posts, a third is either complaining that no one's around, or saying that he's catching up, but giving us nothing.
@ Tennes: I believe it's "Harakiri",
Fener, you outline a group of players that "think alike" : you, Tennes and Gamelon. while not scully in itself, it does raise my hackles a bit...

okay, so I was responding to the italicised part.
Fener is saying that me jumping second on the train after Rashan makes me fishy, as that is something a symp (which is what he's calling me) would do, following his master.

I do believe in clarifying people's mistakes, even if it may not have been important--like I explained earlier I do not know what exactly Rashan was thinking voting Liosan, he may have just been agro voting same as me. I'm not him, I don't know.
the second part of that wasto undermine the logic behind the Fener's statement--in any case, regardless of who followed who quickly, I did not think that was a good indication of a symp, since frankly I did not think that would be a smart symp play. obviously I meant to write "if I was a killer"--I am fairly certain that's how it sounded in my head, at least. sadly, English is nowhere near my first language--more like third, and as I was listening to a Ukrainian song at the time, it's possible I was thinking in Uki, instead of english, so I wrote using the wrong grammar.... and I may have fucked it up, or pressed something on my touchpad to delete it, cuz I know that also happens sometimes when I write on my laptop, as well.

Bottom line is, I do NOT know if Rashan was a symp, (though I hope, because if you do decide to lynch me, it may well give the game to the killers). And I am not a killer. though, obviously there's no way of proving it to you.