[Aptorian]

Ooohh look, a Kallor thread. And look! A Kallor vs. Whiskeyjack discussion!

I don't understand how you can compare whiskeyjacks fighting ability vs Kallors based on a secondhand recollection of WJ sparring with Dassem ten-fifteen years earlier and Kallor having a fight with Dassem five years later. What does that prove? Certainly not that WJ should have won over Kallor on paper.

WJ was older than he was when he fought Dassem. Slower, worn down, so emo you can almost hear the linkin park soundtrack. Kallor probably hasn't changed a day since the fall of the CG. Dassem on the other hand, has probably only been gaining power since him and WJ used to spar. He's ascended, wields a magical sword who's only limit lies in the will of the beholder and driven by an anger so great it makes the gods pee themselves.

I don't believe we can judge who was best of WJ and Kallor from what we know, but based on Kallors legend, and the respect he's given, I think he's the better.

In no way do I think he's on the top of any lists of powerplayers, but he is someone to be scared of.

[Spelljammer]

It is one of those things that could be argued forever...

One sentence sticks in my memory though... ''when a healer's touch could have shattered an age old curse''...

Still, Kallor stepped on a spear butt, so who knows. I agree with Apt, you can't use Dassem to compare them both. Only thing that can be agreed on, neither was a slouch with a sword.

[Excellence]

No ones mentioned Trull. You've dishonoured the forums with your perfidy....

Quiet, humble little Trull, with his efusive smile and nonchalance, who could spear slap Kallor sleepwalking.

[Hinter]

Excellence, on Nov 11 2008, 09:45 AM, said:

No ones mentioned Trull. You've dishonoured the forums with your perfidy....

Quiet, humble little Trull, with his efusive smile and nonchalance, who could spear slap Kallor sleepwalking.

Did they ever meet or are you just speculating? I am suffering massive memory loss from last nights alcohol intake but I can't remember Trull and Kallor throwin' down.

[Sinisdar Toste]

most likely speculation my friend, the hooch be playin tricks on ya. i agree however, if trull could hold off ruin with his singing swords he could slay kallor

This post has been edited by Sinisdar Toste: 11 November 2008 - 10:14 AM

[Aptorian]

Unless he slipped on a spearbutt

[Sinisdar Toste]

yeah then hes just fucked

[Grief]

Do you think spearbutts are the new rake?
Whenever something pops up that no one can solve WHAM, speabutt, and they're fucked.

[Sheve]

dammit i wrote a long and nice reply here but forgot to log in and it dissapered so this is the short version.

This was NOT a Wj vs Kallor thread.

I just was trying to get my oppinion out that i dont think kallor is to be ranked with the most powerfull players in the world.

And we have seen kallor fight 3 times, and we know that WJ and dassem have been fighting, that gives us a possible comparison between WJ and Kallor, Dassem.(sure we dont know how mutch better Dassem is now)
So i have to use WJ vs Kallor to make the point.

And kids dont drink.

[Nagrom]

Karsa will kill Kallor, its his fate. Seems to me Kallor represents everthing Karsa strives against.

"WITNESS!" - lop* thud, thud

Hedge: "Oh look Kallor's head, and a nice flint sword for his soul"
Samar Dev: "Suits him down to the ground, a perfect fit"

[Grief]

Pretty sure kallor could kill karsa.
Kallor may be over-rated, but karsa is FAR more so.

[Excellence]

Karsa is designed to be a planet basher. Height, weight, strength, rapid healing, heavy magic immunity. Attitude.

[Spindle]

I actually don't think Kallor is all that powerful. I think the reason he's so strong comes from simple enough places. He's been alive how long? As a ruler, a warrior, and I'm sure many other roles. Look at the company he keeps, Ascendants and such. I think half the reason Kallor is so strong is only due from the fact that he's been alive so damned long and seen so much. How many battles has he been in? How many times has someone of strength tried to kill him (sure we only KNOW of the few fights we've seen, but I'm sure Kallor's attitude has gained him many strong foes over his long life).

When it comes down to it, he was cursed by three Elder Gods. That power can't be taken lightly. Whatever the curse is, or however it works, I have no doubt that it's what has kept him alive so long. That in addition to his own experience is what makes him so deadly. The second that curse is lifted or shattered, Kallor would easily be crushed by plenty of people. If Whiskeyjack, a fighter with only a percentage of the years in combat experience as Kallor, almost had him... I really don't think Kallor is as great as he makes himself out to be.

I think Karsa would kick his ass. He took out Sengar after all, and he had a 'cursed' sword. Seems Karsa's greatest strength is that magic and curses don't seem to hold up against him. He'd be the perfect person to kill Kallor.

[Nakorite]

Lisheo, on Nov 10 2008, 06:41 AM, said:

the First(do we know for a fact he is mortal?) because he's the Champion of the Segulah.

I reckon there is a good possibility that he is an accendant. The Seguleh worship combat, and the forms of combat according to Rell (or rillish or rill or whatever his name is).

[Sinisdar Toste]

well early on in the series, someone (Mappo?) described ascendancy as mountain peaks among foothills. if the segulah first is the best swordfighter among a society of swordfighters i think that would make for one hell of a mountain peak. i would not be surprised in the least if he was ascended or even worshipped

[Cougar]

If there's one thing Erikson enjoys it's confounding dumb versus debates, he's shown time and again that he won't play ball in the straightforward power-level comparisons. Quick Ben didn't toe to toe, with the sisters who were far more magically powerful than him, he used his brain. Whiskeyjack vs Kallor is an unsolvable debate because of the Spearbut and the Broken Leg. Daseem owns Kallor easily in RotCG, but was Kallor trying? We don't know. Erikson (and now Cam) positively revels in this; he's denied Icarium vs Karsa twice when it seemed they'd go at it. We are even denied a straight fight between Rake and Daseem. Loads of examples.

I for one rate Karsa for his cunning, his experienced. Others have an opinion of him as a fine general and although bitter he seems sane and dangerous. Before TtH I would have said he had no honour and woulld do anything to achieve his aims, but now I doubt that, he seems to have had a moment of clarity. He is a good swordfighter, but having seen his encounters I wouldn't rate him as highly as a dozen others. Magic wise, we don't know but it certainly seems that in the past he commanded vast magics (he killed the population of the continent and the sorcerors felt their only alternative was to call down the CG to take him out) but if he stil does why did he bother swordfighting Whiskey Jack tp get to Silverfox??

[Sinisdar Toste]

kallors power has always been a bit of a mystery, i mean its very possible that as the king of an entire continent he had achieved god like status and abilities, but the elder gods curse took that all away as if he never had it... i mean i suspect he used the kchain mechanisms but in what capacity exactly? what kind doomsday devices did the scaly bastards leave behind?

[Cougar]

And of course we have further evidence of his badassness from his claim (if it is true) that he has killed Jaghut before, which is no mean feat in itself.

[Aptorian]

I think Jaghut are one of the most puzzling creatures Erikson plays around with. In DG we get the impression that you can hardly kill a Jaghut. if you try you need a whole army, and even if you do, you need to bind the soul to the body and burry it under a big rock loaded with wards. Then in BH you have Janath(sp?) who is just stopped dead in an instance with the chop of a hoe... or what ever that KCCM was using.

So yeah, if he killed a Raest/Gothos type Jaghut badass, then props for the High King, but if it was just killing one like Janath... pah, I could kill a Jaghut.

Apt, would pee his pants if he actually saw a Jaghut.

[Cougar]

Well we've no idea really how dificult it was to kill Janath, the description was rather vague and we've no ideas what other factors are at play when she dies. i believe that we have seen more examples of the Jaghut being difficult to kill than easy to dispatch, the mother at the start of MoI dies in a hail of spears when exhausted which seems rather easy whilst there is that one who is part of the tree (is it Phyrliss??) who obviously wasn't too easy to see off. Anyway as mods we should remember to stay on topic; Apterson.