[Pig Iron]

 Aptorius, on 07 August 2013 - 04:05 PM, said:

 Abyss, on 07 August 2013 - 03:45 PM, said:

 Aptorius, on 07 August 2013 - 02:17 PM, said:

...the other meaning could be that he sold his soul for fame but I don't think young Cain was that romantic.

Actually, given his father's academic background, that's entirely plausible. Hari was always more than a killer, he just tried to portray himself that way because that's what the Studios wanted.

True. I saw Hari as being less... deep back then. Very clever yes but also a person hiding in his own mental image of a thug but I could see him thinking up such a name. Although the meaning might have been slightly less self-deprecating back then.

Spoiler

I understood it as a reference to the major deal Caine struck (spoiler spoiler), since it comes late and if I'm not mistaken only in certain (spoiler spoiler) parts of the story. Have to reread (again).

Have posted before about Caine as a possible avatar of Kali (cf Blade of Tyshalle)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kali

Spoiler

"The name Kali comes from kāla, which means black, time, death, lord of death". Kind of spoilerish right there ...

Edit: added spoiler to be safe

This post has been edited by Pig Iron: 07 August 2013 - 04:59 PM

[Tiste Simeon]

Spoilers for up to about halfway through Blade of Tyshalle...

I think I have misunderstood something but how did Kollberg become so powerful? He has just spoken to Avery Shanks & the Soapies have arrived to take Faith from her. He seems to wield some kind of supreme power & the Board stated to Tan'elkoth that they worked for him! Not entirely sure how all this came about. The scene where he receives the email from the Board (IIRC) didn't really explain it or did I miss something?

Also his rape scenes are repulsive. I have a loathing for him that I haven't felt since Rel in DG...

[Aptorian]

 Tiste Simeon, on 12 August 2013 - 10:04 AM, said:

Spoilers for up to about halfway through Blade of Tyshalle...

Spoiler

I think I have misunderstood something but how did Kollberg become so powerful? He has just spoken to Avery Shanks & the Soapies have arrived to take Faith from her. He seems to wield some kind of supreme power & the Board stated to Tan'elkoth that they worked for him! Not entirely sure how all this came about. The scene where he receives the email from the Board (IIRC) didn't really explain it or did I miss something?

Also his rape scenes are repulsive. I have a loathing for him that I haven't felt since Rel in DG...

Spoiler

I honestly didn't understand it either. Supposedly, there is a god that represents man. This god, nicknamed the BOG (Board of Governors), was sealed away on Earth when the elves sealed the road between the two worlds. There is little to no magic (that man can access anyway) on Earth, so the BOG is not able to directly influence the world, rather it works through the people that it infects. The entire Board of Governors is in a sense the god and so are the people that work for the board (hence why the Soapies are so fucking creepy). Apparently, somehow the god can enter other people via e-mail like some kind of demonic I LOVE YOU virus. It chooses Kolberg as its avatar making him into a manifestation of all the worst parts of mans desires.

Truth be told I don't like the idea of the BOG or how it even exists in a magically dead world.

I found the rape sections fascinating. Repulsing yes, but also fascinating. They are not actually sexual in nature. It's more like Kolberg is raping your humanity. Striping away everything you are, reducing you to something less than a child or maybe a toy that Kolberg can use and amuse himself with.

Kolberg is probably one of my all time favorite villains.

This post has been edited by Aptorius: 12 August 2013 - 10:36 AM

[Tapper]

 Aptorius, on 12 August 2013 - 10:34 AM, said:

 Tiste Simeon, on 12 August 2013 - 10:04 AM, said:

Spoilers for up to about halfway through Blade of Tyshalle...

Spoiler

I think I have misunderstood something but how did Kollberg become so powerful? He has just spoken to Avery Shanks & the Soapies have arrived to take Faith from her. He seems to wield some kind of supreme power & the Board stated to Tan'elkoth that they worked for him! Not entirely sure how all this came about. The scene where he receives the email from the Board (IIRC) didn't really explain it or did I miss something?

Also his rape scenes are repulsive. I have a loathing for him that I haven't felt since Rel in DG...

Spoiler

I honestly didn't understand it either. Supposedly, there is a god that represents man. This god, nicknamed the BOG (Board of Governors), was sealed away on Earth when the elves sealed the road between the two worlds. There is little to no magic (that man can access anyway) on Earth, so the BOG is not able to directly influence the world, rather it works through the people that it infects. The entire Board of Governors is in a sense the god and so are the people that work for the board (hence why the Soapies are so fucking creepy). Apparently, somehow the god can enter other people via e-mail like some kind of demonic I LOVE YOU virus. It chooses Kolberg as its avatar making him into a manifestation of all the worst parts of mans desires.

Truth be told I don't like the idea of the BOG or how it even exists in a magically dead world.

I found the rape sections fascinating. Repulsing yes, but also fascinating. They are not actually sexual in nature. It's more like Kolberg is raping your humanity. Striping away everything you are, reducing you to something less than a child or maybe a toy that Kolberg can use and amuse himself with.

Kolberg is probably one of my all time favorite villains.

There's spoilers in spoilers here, because there's post BoT things quoted. Tiste, I wouldn't read those yet

Spoiler

I thought it was not so much the BOG that was the God (I think it is called the Blind God?), nor its servant, but that it was experimenting with the God as another means of control - the BOG of the company having come to 'own it' through the relation between the Company, Overworld and the God, and that Kollberg was their chosen host for its essence - which manifests as an oil that can be fed through drip feeds.

When released into him, he dominates the Board through it - but in turn, Kollberg's own pathetic desires and wishes affect the God. There's different effects of the God in BoT and CL

Spoiler

when Raithe and Caine are infected by it - to Raithe, it is alien magic/ a disease but not a parasite taking him over, whereas to Caine, it merely puts him in control of it, both in Overworld and on Earth

[Tiste Simeon]

Finished!

[Abyss]

And?



(fuck)

[Salt-Man Z]

^ Ha! I basically wrote the exact same post, then deleted it when I realized he posted (at least some) thoughts in the Currently Reading thread.

[Tiste Simeon]

Started the next one. Looks like it is going to involve some of his older adventures (which I think I am going to love!) What I wrote in the other thread(if you missed it) is this:

 Tiste Simeon, on 13 August 2013 - 12:42 AM, said:

So,

It is 0140am. I should have gone to sleep a long time ago. I just finished read Blade of Tyshalle. While a lot of it was a bit weird & abstract it was certainly a good end. Again, not sure where the next book is going to go...

Spoiler

Kollberg deserved a much worse death. When Caine appeared outside Marc Vilos house & killed him, I was grinning massively. Great little piece!

[Traveller]

I've also just finished BoT.

Awesome read, such a slow and precise build up to the return of Caine, i thought it might never happen. Great pay-off at the end, but slower paced than Heroes Die.

Spoiler

I thought the takeover of Kolberg by the Blind God was weird at first, as Kolberg as a person was kind of killed off during the takeover; but as I understood it the whole BoG was a just group of humans, operating under the 'Blind God' - who was itself formed from the collective hunger of mankind made into a sentient being?

Favourite part I think was the

Spoiler

'death' of Hari, and the return of Caine. The attack on Shanna was pretty memorable, although I thought that after that the reanimated Berne was going to be the new Big Bad - and then he was just gone.

Now i I have to decide whether to read Emperor of Thorns, or carry on with Caine in Black Knife..

This post has been edited by Traveller: 13 August 2013 - 08:51 PM

[Baco Xtath]

 Traveller, on 13 August 2013 - 08:41 PM, said:

I've also just finished BoT.

Awesome read, such a slow and precise build up to the return of Caine, i thought it might never happen. Great pay-off at the end, but slower paced than Heroes Die.

Spoiler

I thought the takeover of Kolberg by the Blind God was weird at first, as Kolberg as a person was kind of killed off during the takeover; but as I understood it the whole BoG was a just group of humans, operating under the 'Blind God' - who was itself formed from the collective hunger of mankind made into a sentient being?

Favourite part I think was the

Spoiler

'death' of Hari, and the return of Caine. The attack on Shanna was pretty memorable, although I thought that after that the reanimated Berne was going to be the new Big Bad - and then he was just gone.

Now i I have to decide whether to read Emperor of Thorns, or carry on with Caine in Black Knife..

I would suggest reading Emperor of Thorns first then hitting Caine Black Knife followed immediately by Caine's Law. Those two should definitely be read back to back.

[Tiste Simeon]

Are CBK & CL a two parter? Think I remember reading that somewhere...

[Aptorian]

 Tiste Simeon, on 14 August 2013 - 08:21 AM, said:

Are CBK & CL a two parter? Think I remember reading that somewhere...

Yes and no.

CBK ends in a sort of cliffhanger, there is no resolution and as such you want to read the next one. But the two books are very different. They are two different stories. Two different approaches to telling that story. Don't expect to understand what the hell is going on when you go from CBK to CL.

[Abyss]

Tho it all makes sense in the end.

Sort of.

In a fuck-me-like-a-sociopathic-chicken-pot-pie existential sort of way. With guns.

[Abyss]

 Traveller, on 13 August 2013 - 08:41 PM, said:

I've also just finished BoT.

Awesome read, such a slow and precise build up to the return of Caine, i thought it might never happen. Great pay-off at the end, but slower paced than Heroes Die.

Spoiler

I thought the takeover of Kolberg by the Blind God was weird at first, as Kolberg as a person was kind of killed off during the takeover; but as I understood it the whole BoG was a just group of humans, operating under the 'Blind God' - who was itself formed from the collective hunger of mankind made into a sentient being?

I took it as

Spoiler

the Board was subverted by the Blind God, but Kolberg was the primary avatar thingy.

Quote

Favourite part I think was the

Spoiler

'death' of Hari, and the return of Caine. The attack on Shanna was pretty memorable, although I thought that after that the reanimated Berne was going to be the new Big Bad - and then he was just gone.

I know!

Spoiler

and i actually liked how Berne, the secondary big bad from HD, was treated like a tool and then thrown aside

.

[Salt-Man Z]

 Abyss, on 14 August 2013 - 01:46 PM, said:

I took it as

Spoiler

the Board was subverted by the Blind God, but Kolberg was the primary avatar thingy.

Yep, this seemed pretty clear to me. (Eventually, anyway; I've read the thing three times.)

[Tiste Simeon]

The Knights of Khryl are flippin cool! Despite the fact that one of them is pimp slapping Caine acrss a cell right now...

[Traveller]

 Baco Xtath, on 13 August 2013 - 10:44 PM, said:

 Traveller, on 13 August 2013 - 08:41 PM, said:

I've also just finished BoT.

Awesome read, such a slow and precise build up to the return of Caine, i thought it might never happen. Great pay-off at the end, but slower paced than Heroes Die.

Spoiler

I thought the takeover of Kolberg by the Blind God was weird at first, as Kolberg as a person was kind of killed off during the takeover; but as I understood it the whole BoG was a just group of humans, operating under the 'Blind God' - who was itself formed from the collective hunger of mankind made into a sentient being?

Favourite part I think was the

Spoiler

'death' of Hari, and the return of Caine. The attack on Shanna was pretty memorable, although I thought that after that the reanimated Berne was going to be the new Big Bad - and then he was just gone.

Now i I have to decide whether to read Emperor of Thorns, or carry on with Caine in Black Knife..

I would suggest reading Emperor of Thorns first then hitting Caine Black Knife followed immediately by Caine's Law. Those two should definitely be read back to back.

That's just what I've done. I read Prince and King back to back, and then started with Caine while waiting for Emperor. Now I am totally spoilt for choice!

[Werthead]

Quote

Are CBK & CL a two parter? Think I remember reading that somewhere...

Yes. They are essentially one novel entitled Act of Atonement that was split in half, possibly for length (750-page novels are more expensive to put out, and when they sell only modestly like BoT did it's hard to justify them) but more likely because Stover wanted to split them up that way. However, as others have said, the two parts seem to be very different indeed.

[Salt-Man Z]

 Werthead, on 18 August 2013 - 08:57 AM, said:

more likely because Stover wanted to split them up that way.

This. Stover's contract (part of the deal for writing LUKE SKYWALKER AND THE SHADOWS OF MINDOR, IIRC) was for two Caine books, and those were the two he chose to write.

[Abyss]

This is typically where i go off on a rant about the unfairness of the universe.