Malazan Empire: Spoilers for RoTCG - Malazan Empire

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#1 User is offline   Dr Trouble 

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Posted 27 October 2008 - 08:37 AM

Now, I'm not one to make a deal out of things, but I find this annoying.

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This forum will have spoilers from both Toll and Return of the Crimson Guard. If you do not wish to be spoilered do not read this forum.
Originally Said by Hetan in the stickied thread then LOCKED.

I don't plan to read Return of the Crimson Guard for quite a while, probably even after Dust of Dreams. Yet I've read all Eriksons novels. But because I haven't read a novel by a DIFFERENT Author, I can't speculate with everyone else in this forum in case the books ruined for me?

Thats stupid and fucked up.

This post has been edited by Trouble: 27 October 2008 - 08:38 AM

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#2 User is online   Aptorian 

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Posted 27 October 2008 - 08:39 AM

I believe it's POLLTIME!
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#3 User is offline   Dr Trouble 

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Posted 27 October 2008 - 08:41 AM

Later apt when I'm suitably lubricated. I'm trying to get a point across here at the moment ....


:pizza:

This post has been edited by Trouble: 27 October 2008 - 08:41 AM

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#4 User is offline   Silencer 

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Posted 27 October 2008 - 08:46 AM

Is there any particular reason you won't be purchasing RotCG between now and late next year?

...just asking...

The spoiler policy is technically consistent. As it has always been that spoilers in a book's forum counts for books released prior to the book in question.
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<Vote Silencer> For not garnering any heat or any love for that matter. And I'm being serious here, it's like a mental block that is there, and you just keep forgetting it.



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#5 User is offline   Dr Trouble 

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Posted 27 October 2008 - 08:50 AM

That's for Erikson books though. And seeing as Crimson Guard is Esselmont... I find it stupid.

And there is no reason, I just don't think I'll have time. And outside of ordering it off the internet or getting it ordered into the bookstore, It's not an easy purchase. If I get it I get it, but I'm in no hurry.

I mean, when Night of Knives was released we didn't have a huge warning in the Reapers Gale forum saying its full of Night of Knives spoilers.

Don't get me wrong, if people give fair warning and spoiler the passages appropriately, I don't give a shit. But blatant spoiling? I don't think its the right forum for it.
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#6 User is offline   Silencer 

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Posted 27 October 2008 - 08:53 AM

Would it perhaps be more amenable to you, and others in your situation, to have another forum for "everything goes?".

It's that, with such a system, what is it's topic? What book does it concern? What about new members? They might get major spoilers with anything relating to "SE and ICE books", or "General Spoiler Forum" - they might stumble in. Whereas with "Dust of Dreams" they aren't really about to go in there without having read the book. I hope.
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Shinrei said:

<Vote Silencer> For not garnering any heat or any love for that matter. And I'm being serious here, it's like a mental block that is there, and you just keep forgetting it.



"For the record, I'm pretty sure my mind was shouting 'CLICHESTORM' over and over again during the opening of Skyrim...just putting that out there.." - Me.


~Nothing is true. Everything is permitted.~
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#7 User is offline   Dr Trouble 

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Posted 27 October 2008 - 09:01 AM

View PostSilencer, on Oct 27 2008, 05:53 PM, said:

Would it perhaps be more amenable to you, and others in your situation, to have another forum for "everything goes?".


Well thats what I would have thought would be the reasonable course of action. But I was wrong.

View PostSilencer, on Oct 27 2008, 05:53 PM, said:

It's that, with such a system, what is it's topic? What book does it concern? What about new members? They might get major spoilers with anything relating to "SE and ICE books", or "General Spoiler Forum" - they might stumble in. Whereas with "Dust of Dreams" they aren't really about to go in there without having read the book. I hope.


I don't think that's an issue. What if new members read Toll of Hounds and want to read some speculation on DoD but don't see the warning and get major spoiled?

Maybe I'm making to much of a big deal out of this. I was just annoyed when I read the original sticky. Locked so no one could say anything and no explanation.
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#8 User is online   Aptorian 

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Posted 27 October 2008 - 09:07 AM

Here's a link to the poll I labored over for 2 whole minutes, don't say I don't go out of my way to make people shu... be happy.

http://www.malazanempire.com/IPBforum/inde...c=13231&hl=
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#9 User is offline   Crow Clan Baby 

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Posted 27 October 2008 - 09:59 AM

NoK was a different story arc though, not really connected with what's going on at the present moment in Erikson's books. RotCG is right slap bang in the middle, same characters, same events, same time. Hence the lack of spoiler warnings back then.

Are you aware that RotCG is meant to be read before TtH? You're already "spoilered" on it if you leave it till later...
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#10 User is offline   Dr Trouble 

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Posted 27 October 2008 - 10:03 AM

It's not meant to be read before shit. If it was, it would be in Eriksons main arc. Not Esselmonts.

It's set before maybe, but that means dick.
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Posted 28 October 2008 - 06:42 AM

There's nothing to stop anyone creating a Dust of Deams speculation thread in the Toll forum if they wish to. You can post in there all you like and make people use spoiler tags for Return, if that's how you want to do it.

Members want somewhere to discuss aspects from both books and how events impact on the series as a whole, and as Dust is not going to be published for nearly a year, it's the place to put it. It's clearly marked that there will be spoilers, so anyone who doesn't want to go in doesn't need to.
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#12 User is offline   Dr Trouble 

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 10:19 AM

You don't seem to understand my issue with it. It *isn't* the place for it. If it was, is would be, "Dust of Dreams, Written by Steven Erikson and Ian Esselmont in direct relation to Return of the Crimson Guard".

I mean this is my point, in a year when I read Dust of Dreams and maybe haven't read RotCG, I still won't be able to post my thoughts because of spoilers? Thats not how the series is meant to work.

But whatever, I'm the minority so the issue is moot anyway. I won't mention it again. :D
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#13 User is offline   Sindriss 

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 10:42 AM

Well I really think RotCG has a impact on the main serie by SE so that is why we have to bring up spoilers from that book to make assumtions and crazy theories :D

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#14 User is offline   blackzoid 

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 12:59 PM

View PostTrouble, on Oct 28 2008, 10:19 AM, said:

You don't seem to understand my issue with it. It *isn't* the place for it. If it was, is would be, "Dust of Dreams, Written by Steven Erikson and Ian Esselmont in direct relation to Return of the Crimson Guard".

I mean this is my point, in a year when I read Dust of Dreams and maybe haven't read RotCG, I still won't be able to post my thoughts because of spoilers? Thats not how the series is meant to work.

But whatever, I'm the minority so the issue is moot anyway. I won't mention it again. :D



Through no fault of anyone here, RoTCG is now linked to the main series in a much stronger sense then NoK ever was.
Without reading RoTCG, when you do read Dust of Dreams, you will stop and say "When the hell did this happen?"
In fact, IMO, its more linked to the main series than TTh was. (not a negative thought on TTh, just an impression)

This post has been edited by blackzoid: 28 October 2008 - 01:11 PM

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#15 User is offline   Crow Clan Baby 

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 08:28 PM

As others have said, events in TtH and DoD after it are going to be in direct relation to events in RotCG, and that's happening whether we like it or not. We do understand and appreciate the issue for those who haven't read RotCG, and it would be cool if it was otherwise, but the damage has already been done (by the publication of RotCG) and all we can do is attempt to make the best that we can out of it. ICE has said in an interview that RotCG is supposed to be read before TtH, and it's just bad luck that they were published out of order. Nothing we can do about that.

Have a read of SE's preface to NoK: the intention is to have two authors working on the same world. Now, nobody knew that this would involve such deep interconnections between their two sets of books, but that is the way that it is. There are already certain things in TtH that are spoilers for RotCG, and there will be more in DoD. Times gonna come where it's virtually impossible to discuss an SE event without spoilering an ICE one, and what do we do then? Better to have a clear policy up front, and of course it's impossible to please everyone, but at least it's a clear policy that leaves people knowing where things stand.

For what it's worth, I'm wondering if a refusal to read RotCG until after DoD is at a similar level to refusing to read DhG until after HoC and BH? The two authors work is now that intertwined that it may well be the case...
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#16 User is offline   Epiph 

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Posted 29 October 2008 - 06:01 PM

View PostTrouble, on Oct 28 2008, 05:19 AM, said:

You don't seem to understand my issue with it. It *isn't* the place for it. If it was, is would be, "Dust of Dreams, Written by Steven Erikson and Ian Esselmont in direct relation to Return of the Crimson Guard".


But, by the admission of both authors, this has always been a collaboration between two storytellers. They created the world together and are basically writing this series to each other. In essence, all the Malazan books have always been "Written by Steven Erikson and Ian Esselmont," it was just hindered by Esselmont getting published.

It seems like you're just being stubborn about not reading RotCG. There's no reason not to read it. It can only increase your enjoyment of the series as a whole. I hesitated for a while, because I wasn't sure about the quality of Esselmont's writing, but it is so worth reading.
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#17 User is offline   Abyss 

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Posted 30 October 2008 - 10:47 PM

It's all part of the same story. I see no reason to separate the two when the authors themselves aren't going to.

Things have evolved from when this forum was started. Then it was just SE. Even when NoK initially came out it was in limited release. RCG is fully out there as much as any current SE book. You can walk into any bookstore and buy it a easily as a copy of TtH. Thus, it's fairly part of the forums and right where it's supposed to be imnsho.

This way, if you intend not to buy RCG you know what boards to avoid, but there really isn't any point in adding extra boards to 'layer' things, ie: a TtH board WITH RCG spoilers, a TtH board WITHOUT RCG spoilers, an RCG board WITH TtH Spoilers, an RCG board WITHOUT... etc etc ad nauseum.

The only point in time when this is going to be a 'problem' is when DoD is released, if you haven't read RCG yet. But my guess is the majority of the forum will have and will want to discuss w/big heaping globs of ICE book spoilers because they are relevant and it adds a level of fun.

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#18 User is offline   Onos 

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Posted 28 November 2008 - 06:49 PM

I have already run into problems in the other forums about wanting to say something, but not really being able to. I cant talk about ROTCG in TTH and vice versa when really they both need to be read. i have been on a self imposed hiatus from this site since May just so nothing is spoiled, but now would really like to talk about ALL availble info. Not even sure i should read anything in the older forums as most of what i have the urge to comment on cant be commented on.
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#19 User is offline   Blend 

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 05:17 PM

View PostTrouble, on Oct 27 2008, 10:03 AM, said:

It's not meant to be read before shit. If it was, it would be in Eriksons main arc. Not Esselmonts.

It's set before maybe, but that means dick.



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#20 User is offline   Onos 

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 06:37 PM

View PostBlend, on Dec 8 2008, 11:17 AM, said:

View PostTrouble, on Oct 27 2008, 10:03 AM, said:

It's not meant to be read before shit. If it was, it would be in Eriksons main arc. Not Esselmonts.

It's set before maybe, but that means dick.



Who died and made you the all-knowing god? Seriously, why you gotta be such a jerk about it?


LOL Well, he is unhappy that this world/writers are different from other fantasy out there. And we all know everyone reads the Malazan books cause they are the same as the other fantasy out there... <s>


P.S <s> is the international symbol for written sarcasm.
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