[Lister of Smeg]

Great news about DoD. So when do we get the prologue?

I don't think the quality of the series has declined recently. While DG and MT remain my favourite, BH and RG especially aren't very far behind. I can never decide on my favourite order between them, MoI, GotM and HoC. Even TtH, in my first proper reread that I'm doing now, is growing on me. I still don't like the pacing and I'm skipping the Harllo bits, but apart from that it's a top quality book.

OTOH, I've pretty much lost interest in Martin by now. Waiting for 5 years for the toilet paper that was AFFC was bad enough. Now ADWD is taking years as well. It had better be fantastic or I'll be dropping the series. I'm going to wait for the paperback version as it is (so I might even read it before I collect my pension).

[Salt-Man Z]

I've picked up the first 3 volumes of ASoIaF used, but I figure I won't bother starting the series until they're all out.

[teholbeddict]

 Salt-Man Z, on Nov 19 2008, 01:59 PM, said:

I've picked up the first 3 volumes of ASoIaF used, but I figure I won't bother starting the series until they're all out.

Well you're probably going to have quite a wait on your hands if thats your plan! The series is supposed to be seven books total, and it's taken four years for book five. They are excellent books despite the wait, it's not the type of series that requires you waiting for the complete thing. If you have them you should read them. Keep a look out for book four used, I'm sure it's available.

[ir0nli0nzi0n]

 Enh, on Oct 14 2008, 08:38 AM, said:

Oh, WoT has good and bad about it, but I still like it and want to see the series finished.

Not sure if anyone here likes Janny Wurts but her Wars of Light and Shadow series (which is taking FOREVER to get written) is something I like too. Not sure on the next book. She's fallen into my Martin category lately. I get tired of him and his reasons for not publishing his next book. I just kinda gave up reading that series until the whole damn thing is done (15 years from now) and I will start again at Game of Thrones.

HEAR HEAR! I have had Dance of Dragons on pre-order twice now, only to have it cancelled due to "un-named issues". I hope he puts a synopsis in the front so I can catch up again since it has been so darn long since the last one!

[pat5150]

The Tower of the Hand website is your friend! Detailed summaries of every chapter of every ASOIAF volume!

Patrick

[Sorry]

Couple things to say:
1) Personally I loved Reapers Gale, Toll the Hounds and Bonehunters. I love the amount of the Malazan World that Erikson has been able to introduce us to.
2) So what if so far there hasn't been a satisfying ending to the Jade Giants arch, but to be honest, they seem to be connected to CG so they may resurface in the future.
3) Yes GRRM takes along time to write his books. Yes, he feels the need to create females with large flaws to the readers. But over all I like the series. My problem is his Release Date problems. (Has anyone else seen the letter on his website concerning this? http://www.georgerrm.../if-update.html ... I feel like George is a little kid who, instead of gettign his homework done, just runs off and fools around. I know he likes to show himself to his worldwide fans, and I respect that, but for Gods sake, someone should ground the man from playtime and make him finish the book! I mean, his last prediction was fall 2008... which has come and gone. It's like you need to tell him "K Georgie, you can't write other books until you've finished this one and you can't see your friends until your done... now no supper and go to your room!"
4) Thank God for AMoL coming out and I mean, lets face it, at least Robert Jordan had a very good excuse to not write near as fast...
5)So glad DoD is coming out!!!! Lovin the Erikson!!

[Dragnipurake]

It is amazing that there are people who feel the quality of the series has declined! The writing has gotten better, smoother if anything. I think we should be more aware of our own likes and expectations from the story lines before judging what we do not like as a decline in the quality.

[teholbeddict]

 Dragnipurake, on Dec 7 2008, 07:59 PM, said:

It is amazing that there are people who feel the quality of the series has declined! The writing has gotten better, smoother if anything. I think we should be more aware of our own likes and expectations from the story lines before judging what we do not like as a decline in the quality.

I'm with you one this one! As I stated earlier in the thread I feel the quality and depth have improved as the series has gone on. Just compare GoTM To TTH. The series as a whole is very strong and in my opinion is getting better all the time. I think a big part of it is that people are starting to develop certain expectations, whether it because they like a certain chracter or story line or whatever it may be. When things do not work out in the order they expect or new chracters are created, while orginal characters end up getting less story time, people end up being disappointed. This in no way is a reflection of a decline in the quality of the work itself, just people's personal tastes in realtion to the storyline. Plus we have to remember that no matter how out of place or inexplicable something seems with SE it always for a reason and usually works out in the end. Just not in the order one would expect!

[Adjutant Stormy~]

 teholbeddict, on Dec 7 2008, 07:56 PM, said:

I think a big part of it is that people are starting to develop certain expectations, whether it because they like a certain character or story line or whatever it may be. When things do not work out in the order they expect or new characters are created, while original characters end up getting less story time, people end up being disappointed.

At least for me, on this note, I agree. I will honestly say that the uprooting of characters and connections in MT caused me to RAGE, and forming an attachment to a new cast definitely makes a different book. But overall I think it is true, the cast of characters has changed rather than the quality of the writing. I actively dislike some of the new characters, their story arcs, and where they have gone. But then again I love some of the others more than the early books.

I think the main complaint people might legitimately lodge is a step towards the big picture, which leaves a lot of resolution to be desired at the end of those books.

[crokus younghand]

after reading toll the hounds and return of the crimson guard i can't wait for dust of dreams or anything else to come out of the malazan world eg( i loved the tales of bauchaln and korbal broach:)

[lorddarkflare]

The only book that i feel that there was a drop of quality was TTH, it felt rushed, despite the fact that it had some of the best scenes in the entire series. RG+BH+MT+MoI are the best in the series. MT is the best written, period. That thing is close to being literary in its proportions.

[The Rope]

i'm reading the prince of nothing trilogy right now by Scott Bakker. i only got it cuz erikson is quoted on the front cover of the paperback.
the quote claims he likes it.
first book is called "The Darkness that Comes Before" Pretty damn good so far.
books one and two are out so far, no idea how long. i dont get to bookstores much, nor do i browse online very often.

i figure if Steven Erikson thinks its a good fantasy series, then it's worth a read. the next question to ask is - is the quote an accurate representation of SE's opinion? or is it out of context????

[teholbeddict]

 The Rope, on Dec 10 2008, 08:08 PM, said:

i'm reading the prince of nothing trilogy right now by Scott Bakker. i only got it cuz erikson is quoted on the front cover of the paperback.
the quote claims he likes it.
first book is called "The Darkness that Comes Before" Pretty damn good so far.
books one and two are out so far, no idea how long. i dont get to bookstores much, nor do i browse online very often.

i figure if Steven Erikson thinks its a good fantasy series, then it's worth a read. the next question to ask is - is the quote an accurate representation of SE's opinion? or is it out of context????

Actually all three books are out now, I just finished the trilogy myself. I didn't care for it really, but it did have potential, so I think there's hope for Bakker yet! If you like the first one you will probably like all three. Let me know what you think of the end of book three I'd be interested to see what you think about it.

[The Rope]

also, quality has not declined.
its been indicated that SE intends the writing style to reflect that of a historian, that the series is supposed to read like a history.

it seemed to me that TTH was just that... only from the perspective of a different historian.
none of the series is really written in a first person perspective so much as the retelling of events from the perspective of key observers. the introduction to Fisher Kel Tath as a character really seemed to amphasive this, not to mention the clearly kruppe-ish telling of the book all told.

tth was definitely different for reading, it very much had the filmography panning feel about it. personally, i love Kruppe's character and found it a delight to read. the storyline and progression of the story was erikson's typical brilliance, but with the flare of seeing the same events through another's eyes. seeing it through the eyes of one of the most mysterious characters was thrilling, to say the least, and the inherent tragedy we expect from SE was suitably heart-wrenching.
a death scene on the scale of whiskeyjack's demise at the mine, and the introduction of Anomander's tragic victory... and revelations about the Jaghut...

as far as content, these books are getting increasingly intense and electrifying. it actually does not surprise me the speed with which SE writes (which is epic in itself), what surprises me is that he can even stop writing. I only have to wonder at what doesn't go into this... universe.
as epic as it is to read, how much more so is it to IMAGINE and WRITE! i wonder how much is lost in the translation between erikson's mind to ours'...


... i should be a critic... i can't stop writing... this must be how SE feels sometimes, except where I ramble and dissamble, he creates art...

[marzipan007]

Hi guys! This is my first post at this forum, and I think I've found my real home

I think of course that MBF is the greatest fantasy series ever written after Tolkien
All eight books are great, they each have their own stories to tell and they all have a different feel so what everyones opinions about the book may varies according to their taste. That's maybe the reason some may think that MBF is on the decline, but the quality of each MBF book cannot be questioned, it's still going strong if not stronger.


-------------------------------------

By the way, great news that DOD is coming out of July. Now I know when to start saving.

This post has been edited by marzipan007: 13 December 2008 - 11:09 AM

[Dancer+]

 marzipan007, on Dec 13 2008, 10:53 AM, said:

Hi guys! This is my first post at this forum, and I think I've found my real home

I think of course that MBF is the greatest fantasy series ever written after Tolkien
All eight books are great, they each have their own stories to tell and they all have a different feel so what everyones opinions about the book may varies according to their taste. That's maybe the reason some may think that MBF is on the decline, but the quality of each MBF book cannot be questioned, it's still going strong if not stronger.


-------------------------------------

By the way, great news that DOD is coming out of July. Now I know when to start saving.

Welcome to the forum Marzipan007.

I agree with the content on the books varying according to taste, they do each have their stories to tell and at the end of the day a number of circumstances affect how much someone enjoys the books. I always tend to favour the most upto date books but I haven't quite connected with a number of characters in the later books, in the same way I first connected with those in earlier books, but when I do I believe many of the later books will lie at the top of my favourite books.

I think the problem with the later books personally is the fact many want them to be heavily purposeful and dragging the story on to new depths but Erikson has taken time to develop and write around the events in great detail with both the very big and the very small events getting their place. This will pay in dividends at a later point in my opinion.

[Tattooed Hand]

I have loved the series so far but have to admit that I found TtH a bit fragmented to the degree that I was unable to get very invested in any one story line. That's after one read though and sometimes it takes a second read for the book as a whole to cohere in my mind.

[justacelt]

Well new to the forum, started the erikson series around mid november had em all finished by mid december or so. I was impressed and I loved the whole thing it was like one big book for me from start to finish. I enjoyed it so much I went hardcover hunting for the first 6 of the series and ordered em today. Sigh had to order some of em used. I will do what I usually do and reread the whole thing once or twice before the next book comes out (depends on how much other stuff i can find to read.)
I have several ongoing series grrm is one of em the lazy bum but i will read it when he gets it out post mortem prolly. A bit like Robert Jordan sadly I have met him and have a couple of his signed.
I missed glen cooks series the dark company till they combined em into a couple of fat books and just read those earlier this year I liked that series also. Eriksons series reminds me a lot of Frank Herberts Dune Series / when he was alive and additions by his son and anderson. In terms of scope and complexity of the world. I tend to read large books over smaller ones because I can get through them so fast. This series will be a permanent addition to my library which if I hadnt given like 800+ books to my nephew would prolly be in the 1200 range or better today.

[krazycowboy]

This is my first post on this site. I agree with Marzipan007 that I have found a new home. I absolutely love the MBF series. I have had so much trouble getting into most fantasy series. I think most are just crap.

I can understand how a lot of people would find TTH to not be on par with some of the previous books of the series. I however think it is one of the better books. I love the Kruppe-esque way it's written. And as stated before, bringing Fisher Kel Tath in as a character, in my opinion, adds a lot of weight to the book. I must say that I really miss Quick Ben. He is easily my favorite character. I'm very excited to see where this series is heading and can't wait for DoD. It looks like I'll be ordering it from amazon.uk again... Oh well. Thanks for all the info and the input. It's really interesting to see other's opinions.

[Hoods_Balls]

 Azure Horizon, on Oct 30 2008, 04:18 PM, said:

 teholbeddict, on Oct 30 2008, 01:45 PM, said:

I honestly haven't noticed any evidence that would indicate the quality of SE's writing is suffering as a result of the books coming out yearly. In fact I would go in the other direction and say that the books are improving. I haven't noticed the numerous editing errors either. Events don't always take place in the order that one would assume but they always have a purpose and it's not just to move the plot along.

I didn't have a problem with Martin's last book I really enjoyed it. My major beef is the fact he stated he was half done with the new book when a Feast For Crows was published. He also stated that Dance could be expected within the next year. Obviously it wasn't and he has continued to put out possible completion dates and miss them ever since. I get the quality argument to some degree, but really how long does it take to write half a book? As others have stated in this thread it's not like it's even the last book in the series. As was also mentioned he doesn't write during Con season, so it's not as if he sitting there slogging away for the whole of the year. I would also argue that his series comes nowhere close to the depth of SE's.

I heavily disagree. I think that ASOIAF is just as deep if not moreso than SE's series. It's not as if he's working on just one project, he has many tales that he has to deal with (including ASOIAF side series), and doesn't put all of his time into just one project at a time. He just isn't that kind of writer. He's stated that he's run into a few writing blocks over the course of DoD's lifetime, therefore it has taken longer to write.

I really don't think bitching about how long it's taking him to write the fifth book is productive or is going to make the book come out any faster. I'm not really saying that to you, teholbeddict, but to the others who have complained or even used it to slander Martin in this topic.

When you have a major fantasy series novel that is years past original due date, maybe its time to stop writing the childrens stories and other side crap, and get the job done...cons should not come before the book. When i set a deadline for a project at work im expected to meet it.