[Azure Horizon]

teholbeddict, on Oct 30 2008, 01:45 PM, said:

I honestly haven't noticed any evidence that would indicate the quality of SE's writing is suffering as a result of the books coming out yearly. In fact I would go in the other direction and say that the books are improving. I haven't noticed the numerous editing errors either. Events don't always take place in the order that one would assume but they always have a purpose and it's not just to move the plot along.

I didn't have a problem with Martin's last book I really enjoyed it. My major beef is the fact he stated he was half done with the new book when a Feast For Crows was published. He also stated that Dance could be expected within the next year. Obviously it wasn't and he has continued to put out possible completion dates and miss them ever since. I get the quality argument to some degree, but really how long does it take to write half a book? As others have stated in this thread it's not like it's even the last book in the series. As was also mentioned he doesn't write during Con season, so it's not as if he sitting there slogging away for the whole of the year. I would also argue that his series comes nowhere close to the depth of SE's.

I heavily disagree. I think that ASOIAF is just as deep if not moreso than SE's series. It's not as if he's working on just one project, he has many tales that he has to deal with (including ASOIAF side series), and doesn't put all of his time into just one project at a time. He just isn't that kind of writer. He's stated that he's run into a few writing blocks over the course of DoD's lifetime, therefore it has taken longer to write.

I really don't think bitching about how long it's taking him to write the fifth book is productive or is going to make the book come out any faster. I'm not really saying that to you, teholbeddict, but to the others who have complained or even used it to slander Martin in this topic.

This post has been edited by Azure Horizon: 30 October 2008 - 10:19 PM

[Excellence]

Erikson's truncated sentences, as you call it, are his style of prose, Azure. He always does it. But unlike other authors, he does it with style. It doesn't bother me.

What bothers me was the moon attack of Bonehunters. He always explains an enigma the next book, but Reaper's Gale didn't. That annoyed me. Hoo'd minted breath, you can't leave that unexplained for so many published years.

[Lisheo]

Well, he explained it, or furthered the mystery if you want, in TtH. It will probably be explained later, in DoD, anyway.

[Azure Horizon]

Excellence, on Nov 1 2008, 03:44 AM, said:

Erikson's truncated sentences, as you call it, are his style of prose, Azure. He always does it. But unlike other authors, he does it with style. It doesn't bother me.

What bothers me was the moon attack of Bonehunters. He always explains an enigma the next book, but Reaper's Gale didn't. That annoyed me. Hoo'd minted breath, you can't leave that unexplained for so many published years.

His truncated sentences didn't start with the series, though... you only see them in, I think, the Bonehunters. I don't see it as a stylistic choice if it didn't start with the beginning of the series. If it's his "style", why didn't he use it in previous books?

[Werthead]

Paran, on Oct 13 2008, 09:03 AM, said:

Thanks for the news Pat! I love the rate at which SE keeps churning these books out! Looks like DoD will beat out ADwD by my calcs, though I wonder what the odds would be? Can't wait for Stonewwielder either!

ADWD is currently slated for 4 April in the UK and 30 April in the USA, so if that holds up, it will beat DoD by two months. Of course, 'IF' is the operative word here.

teholbeddict, on Oct 24 2008, 08:33 PM, said:

Great! Now if only Martin would get on with it and finally release Dance with Dragons. How long can it take to finish a book which was supposedly half done when A Feast For Crows was published three years ago! I'm also looking forward to the second book of the Rothfuss trilogy.

Yeah, the reasons for ADWD taking longer have been gone into several thousand times already. And the Rothfuss series is six books divided into two trilogies.

teholbeddict, on Oct 30 2008, 08:45 PM, said:

I honestly haven't noticed any evidence that would indicate the quality of SE's writing is suffering as a result of the books coming out yearly. In fact I would go in the other direction and say that the books are improving. I haven't noticed the numerous editing errors either. Events don't always take place in the order that one would assume but they always have a purpose and it's not just to move the plot along.

I didn't have a problem with Martin's last book I really enjoyed it. My major beef is the fact he stated he was half done with the new book when a Feast For Crows was published. He also stated that Dance could be expected within the next year. Obviously it wasn't and he has continued to put out possible completion dates and miss them ever since. I get the quality argument to some degree, but really how long does it take to write half a book? As others have stated in this thread it's not like it's even the last book in the series. As was also mentioned he doesn't write during Con season, so it's not as if he sitting there slogging away for the whole of the year. I would also argue that his series comes nowhere close to the depth of SE's.

The MBF books are definitely getting weaker as they're going along. You find lots of people saying DHG, MoI or MT (which interestingly took longer than most of the other books to write) are the best, but very, very few saying the same of BH, RG or TTH. Erikson's prose style has arguably improved, but apparently at the cost of his pacing and readability. And obviously the timeline of the books is now totally nonsensical.

As with GRRM, this has been explained numerous times before, but if we want to get into it again:

1) He doesn't write when he's on the road, so he lost a few weeks in the summer when he was in Spain but that's about it for this year. Popping up the road to Denver didn't lose him a lot of time (maybe a weekend). The rest of the time he does 'sit there slogging away'. A much fairer criticism is that he might procrastinate and rewrite far too much rather than just putting out what he's written. Of course, when he did do that with AFFC he got criticsed for it. It's not a straightforward situation.

2) The one-third of the book he had written after AFFC came out was apparently suffering from problems so he rewrote it to make it better. Since we have seen some of the chapters before and after this decision was made, we can authoritively say that this was the right decision.

Of the other books coming out next year, the big one I have my eye on is naturally Scott Bakker's The Judging Eye, due out in January. China Mieville's The City and the City also looks really interesting. The final WoT book will also be interesting, Alastair Reynolds also has a new one due late in the year and Richard Morgan's The Cold Commands also looks good. Ian McDonald's The Dervish House (which does for Turkey what River of Gods did for India and Brasyl for, erm, Brazil) will also likely be very interesting. Paul Kearney may also get out his sequel to The Ten Thousand. Abercrombie and Lynch will also be very interesting, and I believe Ruckley's trilogy will be completed next year, although I wasn't as blown away by the first two books as some others were. Peter V. Brett's The Desert Spear should be good, as the previous book, The Painted Man, was probably the best epic fantasy debut of 2008. I believe Tad Williams' Shadowrise is also due, which finally means I can read the damn thing.

[Ammanas]

Werthead, on Nov 1 2008, 04:37 PM, said:

Paran, on Oct 13 2008, 09:03 AM, said:

Thanks for the news Pat! I love the rate at which SE keeps churning these books out! Looks like DoD will beat out ADwD by my calcs, though I wonder what the odds would be? Can't wait for Stonewwielder either!

ADWD is currently slated for 4 April in the UK and 30 April in the USA, so if that holds up, it will beat DoD by two months. Of course, 'IF' is the operative word here.

teholbeddict, on Oct 24 2008, 08:33 PM, said:

Great! Now if only Martin would get on with it and finally release Dance with Dragons. How long can it take to finish a book which was supposedly half done when A Feast For Crows was published three years ago! I'm also looking forward to the second book of the Rothfuss trilogy.

Yeah, the reasons for ADWD taking longer have been gone into several thousand times already. And the Rothfuss series is six books divided into two trilogies.

teholbeddict, on Oct 30 2008, 08:45 PM, said:

I honestly haven't noticed any evidence that would indicate the quality of SE's writing is suffering as a result of the books coming out yearly. In fact I would go in the other direction and say that the books are improving. I haven't noticed the numerous editing errors either. Events don't always take place in the order that one would assume but they always have a purpose and it's not just to move the plot along.

I didn't have a problem with Martin's last book I really enjoyed it. My major beef is the fact he stated he was half done with the new book when a Feast For Crows was published. He also stated that Dance could be expected within the next year. Obviously it wasn't and he has continued to put out possible completion dates and miss them ever since. I get the quality argument to some degree, but really how long does it take to write half a book? As others have stated in this thread it's not like it's even the last book in the series. As was also mentioned he doesn't write during Con season, so it's not as if he sitting there slogging away for the whole of the year. I would also argue that his series comes nowhere close to the depth of SE's.

The MBF books are definitely getting weaker as they're going along. You find lots of people saying DHG, MoI or MT (which interestingly took longer than most of the other books to write) are the best, but very, very few saying the same of BH, RG or TTH. Erikson's prose style has arguably improved, but apparently at the cost of his pacing and readability. And obviously the timeline of the books is now totally nonsensical.

As with GRRM, this has been explained numerous times before, but if we want to get into it again:

1) He doesn't write when he's on the road, so he lost a few weeks in the summer when he was in Spain but that's about it for this year. Popping up the road to Denver didn't lose him a lot of time (maybe a weekend). The rest of the time he does 'sit there slogging away'. A much fairer criticism is that he might procrastinate and rewrite far too much rather than just putting out what he's written. Of course, when he did do that with AFFC he got criticsed for it. It's not a straightforward situation

Sure we will get into it again because the explanations are false. If you look at his convention schedule, it is nearly endless. Since he doesn't write on the road, the book will never be done. I can't even remember how many years he has been cluesless or procrastinating. It doesn't matter, I could finish the series faster. And the MBF books getting weaker is only your opinion.

This post has been edited by Ammanas: 02 November 2008 - 12:28 AM

[Werthead]

Ammanas, on Nov 1 2008, 11:45 PM, said:

Sure we will get into it again because the explanations are false. If you look at his convention schedule, it is nearly endless. Since he doesn't write on the road, the book will never be done. I can't even remember how many years he has been cluesless or procrastinating. It doesn't matter, I could finish the series faster.

That's what is known in the business as ludicrous exaggeration. I don't know about you but four appearances in 2008 don't really stirke me as 'endless'. His 2009 schedule is a bit more packed because those include some appearances scheduled to promote ADWD. If the book goes over-schedule, some or most of those appearances will be cancelled, as was the case in 2007 and 2008.

Generally speaking, it is not wise to make sweeping statements purporting to be facts to someone who is far better-informed about the situation than you are.

Quote

And the MBF books getting weaker is only your opinion.

And the opinion of most people I've discussed it with. I don't think I've ever seen anyone call DHG or MoI the worst book in the series. I have seen that description applied to TBH, RG and especially TTH, which suggests that the latter books are not being as well-received as the early ones for whatever reason.

This post has been edited by Werthead: 02 November 2008 - 02:41 AM

[Excellence]

Ah. So the moon dance was explained in Toll the Hounds, eh? I'll just have to wait until that paperback comes out then.

[Ammanas]

Werthead, on Nov 1 2008, 08:39 PM, said:

Ammanas, on Nov 1 2008, 11:45 PM, said:

Sure we will get into it again because the explanations are false. If you look at his convention schedule, it is nearly endless. Since he doesn't write on the road, the book will never be done. I can't even remember how many years he has been cluesless or procrastinating. It doesn't matter, I could finish the series faster.

That's what is known in the business as ludicrous exaggeration. I don't know about you but four appearances in 2008 don't really stirke me as 'endless'. His 2009 schedule is a bit more packed because those include some appearances scheduled to promote ADWD. If the book goes over-schedule, some or most of those appearances will be cancelled, as was the case in 2007 and 2008.

Generally speaking, it is not wise to make sweeping statements purporting to be facts to someone who is far better-informed about the situation than you are.

Quote

And the MBF books getting weaker is only your opinion.

And the opinion of most people I've discussed it with. I don't think I've ever seen anyone call DHG or MoI the worst book in the series. I have seen that description applied to TBH, RG and especially TTH, which suggests that the latter books are not being as well-received as the early ones for whatever reason.

No, what is ludicrous exaggeration is your insisting that takes four years to write a novel

Hardcover: 784 pages
Publisher: Spectra (November 8, 2005)
Language: English
ISBN-10: 0553801503

AFFC came out on the date above which means the manuscript was delivered in excess of four moths ago.
Are you living with George? Are you his publicist? Agent? Since the answer is No, then your "well-informed" status is a sham.
I'm dealing in reality---four years, no book. That is just a fact.

[Dancer+]

Azure Horizon: Perhaps you fail to understand the greater picture? It's hard to judge before the conclusion of the series what is necessary and what isn't necessary. This is a series rather than a series of stand-alone books although the latter is the aim as much as possible. In my opinion it depends on how self-contained you want your books and how much you are willing to sacrifice brevity for the aim of greater authenticity.

The RotCG was the biggest errer in terms of grammatical mistakes and spelling mistakes. The mistake of Dassembrae shall not be lightly forgotten.

[Azure Horizon]

Dancer, on Nov 2 2008, 12:19 PM, said:

Azure Horizon: Perhaps you fail to understand the greater picture? It's hard to judge before the conclusion of the series what is necessary and what isn't necessary. This is a series rather than a series of stand-alone books although the latter is the aim as much as possible. In my opinion it depends on how self-contained you want your books and how much you are willing to sacrifice brevity for the aim of greater authenticity.

The RotCG was the biggest errer in terms of grammatical mistakes and spelling mistakes. The mistake of Dassembrae shall not be lightly forgotten.

I'm not sure where I've alluded to "failing to grasp the bigger picture" in the Malazan books. As I've stated elsewhere on the forum, I love these books. They are enjoyable and epic, I just don't put them at a pedestal of great writing compared to, say, ASOIAF.

I'm not sure where Erikson will take the books, but I'm not entirely impressed with the later novels, for the reasons that Werthead described earlier.

[Dancer+]

My comment was in response to yours stating that some things seem to be unnecessary to the plotline. I myself would hesitate to make such a comment before the series is concluded as things might change, plus I'm not a great believer in self-containing plotlines etc. This however is merely a personal preference and not one I expect many people to share.

I hope my response was not seen as an aggressive or defensive retort as it was not intended in that manner.

[Azure Horizon]

Dancer, on Nov 2 2008, 01:13 PM, said:

My comment was in response to yours stating that some things seem to be unnecessary to the plotline. I myself would hesitate to make such a comment before the series is concluded as things might change, plus I'm not a great believer in self-containing plotlines etc. This however is merely a personal preference and not one I expect many people to share.

I hope my response was not seen as an aggressive or defensive retort as it was not intended in that manner.

My comment on many events being unnecessary to the plotline are, like others stated before, derived from the many sequences where we are introduced to characters whose plotlines go nowhere (or who die in the same paragraph they are introduced). These brief hiatuses from the main plot are detracting from the story overall, and do not really add anything. I kind of feel like many of these are just there to fill the page.

I did not take it as anything offensive, no worries

[Salt-Man Z]

I've only just started TtH, but I didn't think the jade statue meteors from BH needed explaining. Heboric saw a bunch of them plunging through space and into a portal back in, I think, HoC. Three books later -- impact! There could be more going on, certainly, but that much seemed straightforward enough to me.

[Shadowthrone]

Great news but I would honestly prefer him to take more time if he thinks it would improve the book. I found no problems with TtH or any of his previous works but if he can do better with another 6 months I think it would be worth the wait!

[Optimus Prime]

This is great news!!!!

Oh, and hello all

[Cougar]

I'm often surprised by the haughty nature of responses to Erikson by Martin fans, although I suppose I shouldn't be by now.

I detest the number of occasions that someones opinion of a stylistic tendency is held up as an objective quantifiable judgement of quality which is an uttterly abstract and subjective concept. As we have said before different authours have different styles. Martin has a tendency to fetishise the development and building of characters which some people enjoy, creating texture and richness whilst others feel it creates problems with pacing (for example if you were a Gemmell die-hard you might consider the pacing of a Martin, Jordan or Erikson book to slow) Erikson as an anthropologist/archeologist loves to build history and layers of the world, his characters are sometimes less developed than Martin for example or maybe psychologically less full than maybe Bakker but I'd argue that all authours make a decision either consciously or (more likely) unconsciously on what elements they wish to include you can't build massive detailed worlds, with lots of description, tie up all story lines and develop characters to he nth degree if you want your books to have a good pace. Sure, there are plenty of examples of great works of fiction where most of these points are covered but how much world building did Tolstoy or Joyce have to do? Martin of course deliberately has not embarked on a massive atempt at detailed world/historical development - it isn't his style and I'm sure I've seen statements from him to this effect.

Azure Horizon I absolutely disagree with your contention of poor spelling and grammatical errors; I'm sure the odd one slips through the net as happens in almost any book I can think of, but the truncated sentences is a stylistic point. Erikson in my opinion writes how he speaks and reproduces common speech patterns in his writting rather than sticking to a conventional manner; of course this is not uncommon in conversations but is less common in narrative sections, it's interesting and I can see why some wouldn't like it. However,dislike remains an opinion not a judgement of worth.

As far as plots going nowhere go, look how people slated the Redmask storyline in RG, this will look pretty stupid if this is integral to a detailed K'Chain Che'Malle plotline and prescence on Lether for example.I'd be reticent to comment too freely on a plot without having read the whole series as Dancer says.

This post has been edited by Cougar: 11 November 2008 - 01:25 PM

[Spindle]

Azure Horizon, on Nov 1 2008, 04:19 PM, said:

Excellence, on Nov 1 2008, 03:44 AM, said:

Erikson's truncated sentences, as you call it, are his style of prose, Azure. He always does it. But unlike other authors, he does it with style. It doesn't bother me.

What bothers me was the moon attack of Bonehunters. He always explains an enigma the next book, but Reaper's Gale didn't. That annoyed me. Hoo'd minted breath, you can't leave that unexplained for so many published years.

His truncated sentences didn't start with the series, though... you only see them in, I think, the Bonehunters. I don't see it as a stylistic choice if it didn't start with the beginning of the series. If it's his "style", why didn't he use it in previous books?

Do you not think it possible for his style to develop as he writes more books? Evolve? It's only natural for an author to notice his own habits, or style, and want to tweak it a bit after writing so many massive books?

- On a side note

I've read these forums since 05 or 06 and hadn't actually made a user until now. It's good to finally do so, get my two cents in here and there! It's cool that some of you guys actually know Erikson and steer him towards these boards now and again.

As for DoD - can't wait! Personally, while I thought books 2/5 were the best for some time, as soon as 6, 7, and 8 flew out - I found that I could no longer put them in order. I just really can't decide. The earlier books seem to have more time to develop characters, where the later ones advance the plot alot faster. I don't think his writing has decreased in quality at all, as some people so far have suggested. I merely figure that it has, as it must, evolved over time. You can't expect him to write the same as he did years ago can you? Not after he's gained so many fans, and had personal struggles to deal with. I didn't know who Lupin was until I read TtH. May he rest in peace, and my condolences along with the thousands of others to Erikson and his family.

Point being, for this guy to release the sheer volume of high quality fantasy, at a steady rate the way he does - damn fellow must be a Tlan Imass! Or at least look like one from time to time! If he does ever come by and read this, I'd like him to know that I'm only 21 but I've been dying to write fantasy - his books are truly inspiring. So onward Erikson! I'm glad some writers can actually keep to a release date. (defend Martin all you'd like, but if he can't get something out by the time he sets, he should learn to set dates a little better - great writer tho)

[Salt-Man Z]

The only real "spelling error" I can think of is Corlo from MT being consistently referred to as "Corlos" in RG. Otherwise, yeah, I've noticed the odd typo here and there, but a handful of typos in 800+ pages is pretty good, and something I wouldn't blame Erikson for anyway.