[High Mage of Mockra]

In HoC the Claws and the Talons keep trying to kill each other. Why? Even though they are rival groups, they are all fighting for the same cause...just one's within the Empire and one is outside of it. Also, who is commanding the Talons now? Cotillion still seems to help them when he can but when he sent Cutter and Apsalar to find the commander of the Talons, who was he sending them to?

[Silencer]

I'm not sure where you are up to...

Did you read the bit about how the Claws turned on the Talons and tried to wipe them out? Because that sort of explains the hate...

Plus, the Talons were Dancer's outfit, the Claws were Laseen's. The two obviously couldn't have co-existed when Laseen took the throne for herself, mixed loyalties, etc.

[James]

Just wondering what happened between them, was it major to full wipe out or were there some who changed? I'm not really sure about them, it seems there pretty much dead in the books, but any info would be much appreciated. Cheers Mate

[Wampyry]

Tim, on Oct 3 2008, 06:07 AM, said:

Just wondering what happened between them, was it major to full wipe out or were there some who changed? I'm not really sure about them, it seems there pretty much dead in the books, but any info would be much appreciated. Cheers Mate

Not too much to say about the Talons. There was a purge when Laseen assumed the throne - not only of the Talons
but of many Kellavend's followers. It was stated that the Talons were wiped out. Can't go further then this

This post has been edited by Wampyry: 03 October 2008 - 11:14 PM

[Silencer]

Yeah, we get a bit into spoilers.
There's some stuff in later books, Return of the Crimson Guard has some more...

[James]

Just another reason to expand my SE/ICE collection

[High Mage of Mockra]

no..i didnt reach that part in the books..don't worry about it though..ive read all the way up to mmidnight tides and im just about finished night of knives...so did that happen in any of those books or have i missed it?

[beru]

DG... feslins protector is a tallon Claw(tallon) tatoo proof in tBH


edit: My bad...

This post has been edited by beru: 20 January 2009 - 02:54 PM

[Aptorian]

Uhm, Baudin was a Talon. Not a claw.

What is it you read in BH that makes you think he was claw? Sure you're not getting pearl and baudin mixed up?

[wareonia]

Korbolow Dom (sp?) the rebel fist who joined the whirlwind was or at least called himself the leader of the Talons.

[D'rek]

wareonia, on Feb 10 2009, 05:43 AM, said:

Korbolow Dom (sp?) the rebel fist who joined the whirlwind was or at least called himself the leader of the Talons.

He had a bunch of assassins working for him Raraku. Maybe one or more of them was an ex-Talon. I don't think they were actually linked to the surviving Talons connected with the Malaz nobility, though (like Baudin).

[wareonia]

Pearl found out the Talons were still active and he worked out the leader was in the oasis, there is a a quote i don't have my book with me to get it but maybe someone else can find it, that says Kobolo dom calls himself the master of the Talons. Whether it's the old ones or new recruits they are still the Talons.

[wareonia]

Sorry just thought of something else, Doesn't cotillion even say the master of the talons is in the oasis. Who else could it be?

[D'rek]

True and true, but alternatively if there were two sects of Talons, there would be two Masters, neh? I figure it doesn't matter much either way - if all the remaining organized Talons were really in the same sect headed by Korbolo, there would still be some not part of the sect and doing their own lonesome bits. If they were all unified and organized, then Korbolo would've known about Felisin=Sha'ik, for example...

[wareonia]

yeah i've been thinking about that, wasn't it Tavore in the first place that got Baunoin to protect her sister and i'm assuming Korbolo had already left the empire's embrace by this time. Unless i have got the dates all mixed up. But then she got a claw to go find her and it was her that informed the claw about the Talons still being around. Makes me think that maybe she blackmailed Baunoin into working for her.

[RangerSG]

wareonia, on Feb 11 2009, 10:01 AM, said:

yeah i've been thinking about that, wasn't it Tavore in the first place that got Baunoin to protect her sister and i'm assuming Korbolo had already left the empire's embrace by this time. Unless i have got the dates all mixed up. But then she got a claw to go find her and it was her that informed the claw about the Talons still being around. Makes me think that maybe she blackmailed Baunoin into working for her.

Actually, I think this is good proof for the "Two Talon" sect theory.

Spoiler

If Korbolo idiot set himself up as "Master of the Talon." And his "Talons" were a recreation of the group he knew about under Dancer and were preparatory to his "ascent" to the Throne,

then the alarm of both Dancer and Tavore makes perfect sense.

But it's likely, that Tavore, being from a noble family and a good student of both politics and military history, knows about the underground nature of the "true" Talon. She doesn't see them as a threat. She's not yet ascended to the rank of Adjunct (though she'd been named). She has her plans in place to deal with the "disgrace" of her family due to Ganoes' "betrayal." And the use of a "true" Talon to defend her family makes perfect sense.

So she uses the "old" Talon because as a noblewoman she can, she probably does make a deal with them to do it. But given how things panned out in DH, she would hardly consider herself beholden to keeping it.

Spoiler

And as Adjunct, the "new" Talon are very much an Imperial concern. And she seeks to eradicate them via Pearl.

[wareonia]

That would certainly make the most sense. I suppose the (old) Talons were ok if they worked alone didn't really get out much and were the play things of the nobility. The (new) Talons being set up as a unified group if left to them selves would have become a threat to the empire or more specificly the Claw as Korbolo's plan was to return to the empire in glory.

[redJAKO]

Tim, on Oct 3 2008, 10:07 AM, said:

Just wondering what happened between them, was it major to full wipe out or were there some who changed? I'm not really sure about them, it seems there pretty much dead in the books, but any info would be much appreciated. Cheers Mate

Baudin states theirs a few "here and there" scattered about, and I believe he refers to the "true" Talon's, which may still be kicking it, vs Korbolo's made-up Talon's.