[Grimjust Bearegular]

wolverine, on Feb 23 2009, 10:12 PM, said:

TTH was really a struggle for me to get through. It was about 700 pages of boredom for 120 pages of insane unending climax. Why did Dassem Ultor show up?

To kill Hood?

[Sinisdar Toste]

nono to kill Rake!

[Ain't_It_Just_]

Was Dassem aware of the whole Dragnipur/Gates of D plan that Rake and Hood made?

[Abyss]

Ain't_It_Just_, on Feb 24 2009, 07:43 PM, said:

Was Dassem aware of the whole Dragnipur/Gates of D plan that Rake and Hood made?

It certainly didn't look like he was. And ST and Cot's chat with him didn't suggest they were keeping him in the loop.


- Abyss, loopy.

[L'oric]

Grimhilde, on Feb 24 2009, 01:41 AM, said:

wolverine, on Feb 23 2009, 10:12 PM, said:

TTH was really a struggle for me to get through. It was about 700 pages of boredom for 120 pages of insane unending climax. Why did Dassem Ultor show up?

To kill Hood?

It took the (RotCG spoiler upcoming)

Spoiler

QoD

, Shadowthrone/Cotillion, and Mael to get Dassem there at just the right time. Dassem is starting to get like Icarium too many strings on him and those strings are actually very deadly snakes.



can anyone tell I have been at work a lot today?

This post has been edited by L'oric: 27 February 2009 - 04:02 AM

[Grimjust Bearegular]

L'oric, on Feb 27 2009, 05:01 AM, said:

Grimhilde, on Feb 24 2009, 01:41 AM, said:

wolverine, on Feb 23 2009, 10:12 PM, said:

TTH was really a struggle for me to get through. It was about 700 pages of boredom for 120 pages of insane unending climax. Why did Dassem Ultor show up?

To kill Hood?

It took the (RotCG spoiler upcoming)

Spoiler

QoD

, Shadowthrone/Cotillion, and Mael to get Dassem there at just the right time. Dassem is starting to get like Icarium too many strings on him and those strings are actually very deadly snakes.



can anyone tell I have been at work a lot today?

So he was sent there to kill Rake without knowing about it, thinking he was going there to kill Hood? Cause that's who he was looking for, right?

[Hatman]

Husson, on Dec 10 2008, 07:57 PM, said:

I don't post here ever but I felt the need to on this one because it hits close to home for me. Parts of TtH were brutal for me. I skipped them in the reread. Harllo and the ox especially, although I love the whimsical flow of Kruppe's thoughts enough that it did not bother me. But taken as a whole, I tend to think of TtH, more than any other work of SE, as a symphony. Taking a few themes that are revisted and expanded upon over time, and weaving them all together as you build to a resounding crescendo.

The play of the wonder and optimism of youth versus the cynicism, hopelessness, and escapism of the aged is very poingant throughout the book. Add in the discordant elements thrown in by the Bridgeburner, Kallor, and Karsa storylines and there is a nice play of resonant and dissonant themes. Above all this you have Rake, who transcends every stereotype, who is above every theme. He is omnipresent throughout the book, I found myself considering, more and more, how he would react to even the mundane situations in the book. All in all, MoI is my favorite book in the series. It made me love Rake, WJ, and Brood. It made me hate Kallor and the CG. But, as a complete work, I think that TtH is simply better put together and executed.

I know I am rambling but I do not know how to say it better than that.

Agreed with this.
Stupid thing for me to say in my second post on the board, but whatever; to me, the series has been on a very bumpy road - and a mostly downhill one - since MoI, and if any one of the subsequent books was the one I started the series with, I probably wouldn't have picked up any of the others. Or, at least, they'd be placed pretty low on my list.
Not that I consider them bad. Far from it. The only book I'd genuinely say I disliked would be Midnight Tides, and it could probably do with a re-read. From what I recall, the characters were flat and boring, the plot fairly uninteresting, and the... er... obsession with penises and penis jokes somewhat unbearable. I like a good dick joke as much as anyone, but really.

Anyway. I do like the books, as a whole, but I feel they could greatly benefit from a return to a smaller scale/stronger focus like that of GotM or even DG. Now we're all over the place, with lost islands and warren journies and about forty "main" characters to struggle to remember in the months between books and giant green statues crashing into the world for no apparent reason and it's all getting... a bit too big. It's lost coherency, and the amount of filler (yes, there is unnecessary filler, go away) and philosophical rambling just adds to that. My time is precious, but I can't bring myself to skip so much as a paragraph of the "bad" sections. So that annoys me. And is kind of my own fault.

This post has been edited by Hatman: 20 March 2009 - 07:29 PM

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

blackzoid, on Feb 12 2009, 05:34 AM, said:

Raymond Luxury Yacht, on Feb 12 2009, 12:26 AM, said:

Zorland, on Aug 25 2008, 01:17 PM, said:

Let me ask you this, what are your previous experiences with literature? It sounds as if you are coming from an Eddings/Jordan/Goodkind background.

What makes this series so amazing is that it holds its own as a work of literature. A lot of the flack that the fantasy genre takes is because so many authors have just rehashed the Lord of the Rings, and in order to make things "interesting", they have focused on the plot. Erikson has not done this. It is, perhaps, hard to realize that because his storytelling is almost revolutionary in itself. He has built an amazing world with amazing characters, something that fantasy readers are treated to far too infrequently. But don't let the plot overshadow the magnificence of the books.

In the previous novels, I was thoroughly impressed with the characters and characterizations. I would refer to the MBotF as tragedy - not fantasy. Erikson's ability to draw forth tragedy, humanity, and comedy in painful (indeed, painful) detail is phenomenal. I would read these books even if the plot made no sense at all.

With Toll the Hounds, I honestly think that Erikson has stepped up his writing. The way that themes flow through chapters now is unbelievable. I am not a literary critic, and so I do not posses the words nor the skills to fully explain this. I would point you to the chapter that begins with the idea: Children will always love places they've never been -- and ends with: adults will always fear they places they've left. The way these two ideas are developed, and the way they flow into each other is..well I am running short of adjectives here...mind-boggling.

If you're having trouble appreciating the first 700 pages of the book, which is the best part of the book, then I suspect that your literary maturity is just too low for this series. Do not feel chagrined, though. No one can pick up a book on Quantum Field Theory and appreciate it immediately, but anyone could work their way up to it. I would suggest you read some more and come back to it, and then consider how you feel.

Cheers,

This post reeks of a Goodkindfan-like attitude of "If you don't like it as much as me that must be because you didn't understand it as well as me."

I share the common belief that this is the weakest book of the series. Others think it's one of the best. Does this mean they do not understand the series as well? No, it means we are rewarded or annoyed by different aspects of the books, leading to a different perception.

You are now going to have to prove that the common belief is that this is the weakest of the series. Whats the sample size?

For me its just behind MT in the book rankings. And only just.

Sorry I'm not replying to this sooner, I don't get to the book forums very much.

Anyways, I don't need to prove anything. I think you're misunderstanding me a bit. It seems you think I am saying that the MOST common belief is that this book is the worst. I'm not saying it's the MOST common belief, merely A common belief. Sample size? These forums. Read the discussions, there's enough people who say they liked this book the least to refer to the idea as common. As my previous posts states, it's all a matter of perception though.

[Mok]

Hatman, on Mar 20 2009, 04:23 PM, said:

Agreed with this.
Stupid thing for me to say in my second post on the board, but whatever; to me, the series has been on a very bumpy road - and a mostly downhill one - since MoI, and if any one of the subsequent books was the one I started the series with, I probably wouldn't have picked up any of the others. Or, at least, they'd be placed pretty low on my list.
Not that I consider them bad. Far from it. The only book I'd genuinely say I disliked would be Midnight Tides, and it could probably do with a re-read. From what I recall, the characters were flat and boring, the plot fairly uninteresting, and the... er... obsession with penises and penis jokes somewhat unbearable. I like a good dick joke as much as anyone, but really.

Anyway. I do like the books, as a whole, but I feel they could greatly benefit from a return to a smaller scale/stronger focus like that of GotM or even DG. Now we're all over the place, with lost islands and warren journies and about forty "main" characters to struggle to remember in the months between books and giant green statues crashing into the world for no apparent reason and it's all getting... a bit too big. It's lost coherency, and the amount of filler (yes, there is unnecessary filler, go away) and philosophical rambling just adds to that. My time is precious, but I can't bring myself to skip so much as a paragraph of the "bad" sections. So that annoys me. And is kind of my own fault.

In my opinion, Midnight Tides was one of the better reads I had in the series. I wouldn't rank it up with Deadhouse Gates, but it was still quite a good read. The clash of culture, the shattering of illusions and the aftereffects of dealing with a crisis while in shock were very interesting, and I liked the fact that he broadened the scope of his story and created some interesting character relations, what with Rhulad and all. I'd rank it as my third favourite in the series, even after extensive rereading.

I can understand what you mean about scope though. The size of the story and sheer amount of characters is enough to drive me crazy, and after going a few months having not read anything on the series, I find myself getting characters and events confused. Part of that is what I like about it though. I honestly enjoy seeing something that massive still being carried and still somehow working, especially in light of the crash and burn that Martin pulled ith aSoIaF.

It's also probably just personal taste, but I am a fan of his philosophical rants from time to time. I find them fairly accurate, insightful and they make me stop and think a little harder about what he's trying to say, which generally pays off for me. The only thing I don't like about them is that he gets a little verbose from time to time and it almost seems like he's just masturbating with words, but the premise of what he's saying is still good.