[Bent]

eastendleo, on 31 December 2009 - 04:10 AM, said:

Reading the story of these two dogs, I thought it beautifully captured the power of Erikson's writing. From what at first seems a throw away image of death (what else would be happening when we are shown a cattle dog racing away with a dog 'morsel' in its mouth?), to a commentary on unusual friendships (think Icarium and Mappo, or Felesin and Herboric), and finally the tragic fixation on salvaging the almost certainly dead dogs by the soldiers at the end (a stand in for all their losses in battle?). And the change of heart by Mappo thinking what would his friends response be and acting on that to give the soldiers the elixers that will save the lives of the bonded dogs...it choked me up. Along with Icarium and Mappo, this is one thread of the book that swelled to perfection for me.

Finally, Someone else gets it!!!

(You wouldn't want to change your name to Roach and pretend to be female....would you?)

[eastendleo]

Bent, on 31 December 2009 - 12:05 PM, said:

eastendleo, on 31 December 2009 - 04:10 AM, said:

Reading the story of these two dogs, I thought it beautifully captured the power of Erikson's writing. From what at first seems a throw away image of death (what else would be happening when we are shown a cattle dog racing away with a dog 'morsel' in its mouth?), to a commentary on unusual friendships (think Icarium and Mappo, or Felesin and Herboric), and finally the tragic fixation on salvaging the almost certainly dead dogs by the soldiers at the end (a stand in for all their losses in battle?). And the change of heart by Mappo thinking what would his friends response be and acting on that to give the soldiers the elixers that will save the lives of the bonded dogs...it choked me up. Along with Icarium and Mappo, this is one thread of the book that swelled to perfection for me.

Finally, Someone else gets it!!!

(You wouldn't want to change your name to Roach and pretend to be female....would you?)

just remember where you first see Roach...but sure, I can pretend if you can...

[Abyss]

kimb, on 22 April 2009 - 04:29 AM, said:

I just finished reading DH for the first time. For some reason I got it in my head that Roach ate the piece of Semk demon that Apt threw after tearing it out of the Semk's body. The book said that the Semk stumbled after it but we don't hear about him again so I assumed he never got it. We read about the dogs eating "things" out in the grass and after this incident we were introduced to the crazy duo.
I felt it could be a funny shadow to the Mappo/Icarium storyline... Bent trying to prevent Roach from releasing his "inner demon".
Hahaha ok it's a stretch but charming...

This is thoroughly unlikely but i had a good chuckle at how tempting this crazy theory is.

Bent, on 31 December 2009 - 12:05 PM, said:

eastendleo, on 31 December 2009 - 04:10 AM, said:

Reading the story of these two dogs, I thought it beautifully captured the power of Erikson's writing. From what at first seems a throw away image of death (what else would be happening when we are shown a cattle dog racing away with a dog 'morsel' in its mouth?), to a commentary on unusual friendships (think Icarium and Mappo, or Felesin and Herboric), and finally the tragic fixation on salvaging the almost certainly dead dogs by the soldiers at the end (a stand in for all their losses in battle?). And the change of heart by Mappo thinking what would his friends response be and acting on that to give the soldiers the elixers that will save the lives of the bonded dogs...it choked me up. Along with Icarium and Mappo, this is one thread of the book that swelled to perfection for me.

Finally, Someone else gets it!!!
...

Yep. Bent and Roach's part in the Chain storyline is actually one of my fave parts for a few reasons, not the least of which is the sheer humour of the meanest wickan cattle dog ever allowing itself to be dominated by a lapdog with attitude. Bent stood by Coltaine right at the end, we didn't even know Roach was still there til Truth was trying to save them... that itself was tragic, gesler and co trying to save two dogs after the Seventh and the Aren Legion were all lost... and Mappo's last minute save. This part worked on a lot of levels, humourous and emotional.

- Abyss, could say that storyline went to the dogs.

[Bent]

The only reason that Bent was dominated by the lapdog is.....

Pretty sure theres never been mention of any other female dogs around...unless you coun the hounds, but they're kinda big....be hard to climb on, if you know what I mean

Ba-dum-tisssssshhhhhh

[Beezulbubba]

I think Bent the cattle dog and Roach the lapdog also were created by SE as a metaphor representing the relationship between Coltaine and the Nobles. When the chain of dogs is marching, the lapdog (who comes from the contingent of nobles) finds protection in the discuting maw of the cattle dog (who comes from the Wickans). Not the most comfortable or the ideal situation, but protection is found in this unlikely of places. Once the march stops for the day, the lapdog gets all yippy. .... pretty much describes the relationship between Coltaine and the Nobles.

[Red King]

I love the Bent and Roach combo, they are very interesting team later in the series, only a couple books later they will be explained further which will make alot more sense about them being kept alive. Other wise, i shall speak no more!

- Ultor

[Crow Clan Baby]

I think one reason why is quite obvious already, which is that they're survivors from the Chain.

[theocean]

I understand the symbolism of the two and they are great characters and bring a ton of light heartedness to a very sad event/events... They just seemed to be so much more than just two dogs. It annoys me that we never get a real answer on how they are able to survive all that they did, dogs can be tough and all but being stabbed until you slide down the shaft of a spear and then several days later some marines find you and your still alive?

[Andorion]

theocean, on 13 October 2014 - 01:13 PM, said:

I understand the symbolism of the two and they are great characters and bring a ton of light heartedness to a very sad event/events... They just seemed to be so much more than just two dogs. It annoys me that we never get a real answer on how they are able to survive all that they did, dogs can be tough and all but being stabbed until you slide down the shaft of a spear and then several days later some marines find you and your still alive?

The Chain of Dogs changed some of those who walked it. Coltaine almost Ascended. my own belief is that those two dogs came close to Ascendancy as well. The medicines MAppo gave them at the end of DG may also have something to do with it.

[theocean]

Andorion, on 13 October 2014 - 01:46 PM, said:

theocean, on 13 October 2014 - 01:13 PM, said:

I understand the symbolism of the two and they are great characters and bring a ton of light heartedness to a very sad event/events... They just seemed to be so much more than just two dogs. It annoys me that we never get a real answer on how they are able to survive all that they did, dogs can be tough and all but being stabbed until you slide down the shaft of a spear and then several days later some marines find you and your still alive?

The Chain of Dogs changed some of those who walked it. Coltaine almost Ascended. my own belief is that those two dogs came close to Ascendancy as well. The medicines MAppo gave them at the end of DG may also have something to do with it.

but they were still alive prior to the mapp treatment. Bent was stabbed basically the same time as Coltaine. it took them a day and a half to hang everyone, then the half ascended marines come along several days later and both dogs are still alive. I just feel like its something that should be explained in someway, but never really was. I Just kept waiting for some type of revelation. bent was really a demon, or a soletaken, or or or or something. Give me somethin to explain the god like attributes of a cattle dog and a lap dog.

[Gorefest]

Sure. Prozaic license, Ascendancy through the Chain of Dogs, or just because it is a great way to plink the heart strings of the reader. It's not real, it's fiction. If it works, why question it?

[worry]

Being impaled isn't as deadly as you might think, depending on the location.

[theocean]

worry, on 13 October 2014 - 07:15 PM, said:

Being impaled isn't as deadly as you might think, depending on the location.

But being impaled and then left for several days, im guessing the marines founf the dog close to a week afterwards right? It took a day and a half or so to nail them up. Then after that the silanda showed up then im sure they settled in for a day before starting their search, THEN they found the dog. Its just a little TOO much toughness for an ordinary dog who just travelled 1000s of miles with little water and food and now has a gaping wound clear through his body. I know its a minor thing to bitch about in an amazing book, but i just constantly kept wondering how the dog kept going and what was its secret and then ....... I know its tough to look for logical explanations in a book with dragons, undead beings that turn to dust, magic of all sorts, peoples souls eing taken in by crows, and all that jazz, but for some reason i found myself over and over again wondering about the powers of that damn dog.

[Andorion]

theocean, on 14 October 2014 - 01:15 PM, said:

worry, on 13 October 2014 - 07:15 PM, said:

Being impaled isn't as deadly as you might think, depending on the location.

But being impaled and then left for several days, im guessing the marines founf the dog close to a week afterwards right? It took a day and a half or so to nail them up. Then after that the silanda showed up then im sure they settled in for a day before starting their search, THEN they found the dog. Its just a little TOO much toughness for an ordinary dog who just travelled 1000s of miles with little water and food and now has a gaping wound clear through his body. I know its a minor thing to bitch about in an amazing book, but i just constantly kept wondering how the dog kept going and what was its secret and then ....... I know its tough to look for logical explanations in a book with dragons, undead beings that turn to dust, magic of all sorts, peoples souls eing taken in by crows, and all that jazz, but for some reason i found myself over and over again wondering about the powers of that damn dog.

I am theorising that the dog came close to ascending. Coltaine definitely did. Its the only thing that explains a very important later incident........which I can't refer to because this is the DG forum.....so RAFO?

[worry]

I mean, the fact that an "ordinary" dog is not likely to survive the ordeal should just lead you to the conclusion that it's an extraordinary dog. There's no further conflict on the issue after that. Though of course it would, quite properly, pique your curiosity.

Vague MOI information, but probably don't read it if you're just to DG:

Spoiler

In addition though, if you want more explanation, we know that parallel to DG events that the Beast Hold is in ascension. Not too shocking that a pair of extraordinary dogs might arise somewhere.

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

Abyss, on 31 December 2009 - 09:49 PM, said:

Bent stood by Coltaine right at the end, we didn't even know Roach was still there til Truth was trying to save them... that itself was tragic, gesler and co trying to save two dogs after the Seventh and the Aren Legion were all lost... and Mappo's last minute save. This part worked on a lot of levels, humourous and emotional.

Re-reading presently, but I remember that being one of many pieces towards the end that sort of shouted "These heartstrings? Ha! You have no need of them any more, puny mortal!"

This post has been edited by TheRetiredBridgeburner: 05 November 2014 - 12:52 PM

[Felisin Fatter]

Roach always seemed a reflection of Felisin to me. Spoiled, small, looks pretty harmless. But turns out to be a survivor with an attitude, even when she's 'thrown to the dogs' (Also, less seriously, the nobles (like Tavore) try to get her back, but Roach does not want to go back.)

Pretty sure there is an influence from the wolf gods as well. And in these bookd, the 'last survivors' of anything often seem to have grown stronger, possibly because of all the spilt blood? In this case, these became / gained sort of the essence of the animals in the Chain of Dogs.

[Fiddler]

Just remember all these thoughts when you finish the series, and remember that much like Itkovian, these two dogs aren't done, not yet.

[Enders]

I probably went off in a completely different direction on this but I sort of got the feeling that it was some kind of statement on mankind. Granted, I just read it quickly a few hours ago before sleep but this was my interpretation even though it probably wasn't the author's intent.

At that point in the book, you just got done reading about the brutality and evil of mankind. Death by the thousands, mass graves, staggering amount of crucifixions and other such things. And then you hear about these dogs which were so loyal and fierce. Not necessarily by their own choice (though I know next to nothing about them, only read DG and missed a lot of parts about them) but they adapted either way. Seems to me to be both a conclusion to the story arc, a statement of mankind, as well as some kind of heart-string maneuver. Afterall, how many of us find ourselves wanting pets to survive a movie or book more than the actual people.

But then again maybe I'm just a dog person