[amirebram]

Okay. So we know that the BB have ascended, and we have seen a few of them. We also know that they will be in the future book. So I have a few questions:

1. Which BB did ascened? The original 70 from Rareku, those who were alive when the Tano Song was sang, every person who has ever been a BB, or a select goup from the BB?

Consider the BB who talked to Kalam about creating a diversion [Let's call him Mr X]. Mr X had been dead for years, acordig to Kalam, and he had deserted before Laseen became Empress. That makes it clear that long dead BB can return as ascendants. This also means that Paran's blessing was not neccesary (though I am sure it helped), since Paran had never even seen Mr X and could never have blessed him. Therefore the original 70 are going to have Ascended for sure.

Now we need to consider that the story used in the BB's Tano Song came from Fiddler. This opens a possibility for every person whom Fid considered a BB to be part of that Song (Hundreds of men who joined and became BB over the years). Although I believe that Fiddler has to know these people idividually, and know of their deeds, for them to be included in the Tano Song. Thus; I believe that other significant figures who joined the BB after Rareku would have also ascended, since they needed to be in the Song to make the BB story work/complete.

2. How powerful are these new Ascendants? Are they just ghosts w/physical propeties? Can they be killed like normal wraiths? Do they have magical powers? Does Paran's blessing or Raraku's interference effect their power?

I don't know how powerful they are, but I guess that the original folks from Rareku are going to be stronger. This is because Rareku rose to the Song and claimed it as its own. Rareku is stong, and it also gives power to those it chooses. Those whom Paran blessed should also have an extra something.

I also think that they will have new powers; it is almost a must. Those two guys from the Ashock Regiment (the capten who was taken as a prisoner and spoke to Tavore) said that the BB had burned their chains off and freed them. Hedge seemed to appera out of nowhere to save Fid's life. They just appeared out of the blue to save Heboric. These tell me that they have some extra power.

Can they be killed? Sure, everything can be killed, but I don't think that simple swords and weak magic can kill them.

3. What kind of Ascendants are they? Are they free to do as they like, or are they bound together as a group? Are they bound to a location or to Paran? And everything else.

I think that they are free to go off on their own, but to be powerful they need to work together. It is quit likely that they will join Paran agains the CG >> Paran's card in the Deck indicated as much. And it would even up the fight.

Two last points: One; I think that Picker and Blend have been killed/died in Darujistan ... just a gut feeling. Two; I don't think that Whiskyjack is comming back with the group. He will seek his own destiny.

[Folken]

quote:

I think this is just one of those inconsistancies in GotM. Like the sword Paran took from the Adjunct and other things.

Not an inconsistancy...Steven Erikson quite honestly just forgot about the sword when he wrote Memories of Ice. lol, but he says the sword will make its return

[Leoman]

Yeah, that Whiskeyjack thing sounds right. I bet hes gonna somehow be allied with the BB though. I've got a suspiscion that they're gonna somehow live sorta like Shadowthrone and Cotillion, they can sorta teleport places. They could very well even be allied with the two seeing as Shadowthrone was the Emporer and Cotillion Dancer etc.

As for the Picker/Blend thing, theres no way that Blend is dead. She'd just step into the shadows And now that they've started up a tavern, they're probably gonna make some money. Of course Paran is living with Raest in the Finnest House, and QB is probably plotting how to outsmart Kallor and the CG.


Peace Y'all

[Imperial Historian]

quote:

What you suggest would mean well over 1000 people ascending, which is quite radical.

True but didn't quick ben say that the ascension of the BB's was something unprecedented since the ascesion of the imass, where several thosuans ascended.

As for only those who knew fiddler ascending... possibly, but fiddler would have known most of the BB's i'd say....

[Folken]

I swear they said in GotM there were some 1400 of them

[Folken]

then why would Sorry tell Tattersail they numbered 1400 in ther morning...or were other soldiers also in the tunner with them?

[amirebram]

@ Imperial Historian: True. Only one objection and that is about the T'lan Imass: I don't think that they ascended, technically speaking. They are undead. At least that was what I figured, since Ascendants don't seem to rot and wither like the T'lan Imass do.

[Arkmam]

quote:

BUT Nok wasn't even in Malaz city when the whole thing went down!

He means the novella Night of Knives (short form NoK) by Ian Cameron Esslemont (sp?), not Admiral Nok. You can find more information about it around the forums somewhere.

[amirebram]

Have we ever seen any ghost ascendants before? Waht is the difference anyways?

Dancer/Rope was killed when he ascended (or did he ascend before dieing?)

[Folken]

yeah this is Fantasy. You don't question something like that lol

[amirebram]

@ Hetan: The Seven Cities war took many years. There could have been a good ten years between the taking of Aren until the taking of Y'ghtan(SP?), where Dassem Ultor was killed. If you remember the intro to GotM, when Paran first sees Whiskyjack, he thinks of the BB as the Emperors favored elite. This suggests that a number of years had pased since they had crossed Rareku. In those years their numbers could/would have grown.

I am with Folken on this; in GotM Sorry said that there had been 1500 BB in the tunnels. I mean, if they weren't getting any new people then how did Sorry join them?

[Imperial Historian]

Well quick ben seems to think that the process was at least simmilar to ascension back in HoC, and well thats good enough for me!

oh and teh BB's didn't ascend as flesh and blood they ascended as ghosts... so it's not quite ure standard ascension.

[amirebram]

@ Imperial Historian: What you suggest would mean well over 1000 people ascending, which is quite radical. Again I point to the fact that Kimloc got his story from Fid, and how he sang the Song is quite important.

I think that only those whom Fid thought of as BB and knew in person have ascended. It just seems to me that if you are meant to ascend with the song you should by in it, and how can someone be there if Fid didn't even know them?

@ Hetan: I see your point and Your info is legit; I think this is just one of those inconsistancies in GotM. Like the sword Paran took from the Adjunct and other things.

Be Happy

[Imperial Historian]

quote:

Consider the BB who talked to Kalam about creating a diversion [Let's call him Mr X]

Theres a nice little introduction to Mr X in NoK, which pleased me greatly.

quote:

the original 70 or so because...they were formed at the behest of Dassem to cross Raraku. Shortly after Dassem was killed and within the year Kellanved and Dancer were assassinated and Surly took the throne. Since then she has been doing her best to get rid of them, not boosting their number

I think that there were many more, certainly here were significant numbers as a single undermanned division of 1400 suggests they were once significantly more, and i'd say it was several years before Dassem death that the BB's formed... The original 70 were "all so young", and the BB's had established a reputation as an elite, and Nok Spoilers

****************Nok Spoilers****************

Temper recognised the BB's as an elite regiment, so they must have been around for a whiel to develop that kind of reputation.

*********************************************

Also seeing as lassen was around and kelvanned absent for a few years before dassems death all that points to the BB's being round for a while, enough so that the original group were starting to be considered old...

Re the bridgeburner ascension issue...

Well it's certainly the case that the original core group of BB's were those who crossed raraku, now were not 100% on who these were, we know Fiddler,Hedge, Picker, Whiskeyjack, Kalam and Quick Ben were among this original group, the identities of the otehrs are up in the air.

Now consider the fact that the company wa slisted as one mage, an assasin and 70 soldiers... that suggests that the mages toes, bluepearl, spindle, and shank who were all intered in moonspawn, and presumably came back, then there's also Mallet, who commanded a squadron of healers at some point and so is unlikley to have been one of those how crossed the desert, detoran who was a master seargeant at some training area, trotts is unlikley to have corssed raraku as no barghast is mentioned among the group , assirted other veterans, the list goes one... now some of these have certainly ascended, but have all of them?

Initially i thought those hwo had ascended were those intered in moon spawn, but Mr X disproves that one.

We also know that all of those intered in moon spawn came back, though it is not certain that tehy all crossed raruku, so the crossing of raraku is not necessarily what caused it.

Personally i think the regiment has ascended en-masse, and all those who are accepted into the BB's and got past the recruit epihet have ascended.

[Folken]

quote:

3. What kind of Ascendants are they? Are they free to do as they like, or are they bound together as a group? Are they bound to a location or to Paran? And everything else.

I think that they are free to go off on their own, but to be powerful they need to work together. It is quit likely that they will join Paran agains the CG >> Paran's card in the Deck indicated as much. And it would even up the fight.

Well I personaly think they'll probably just end up as protectors to the living Bridgeburner's and Ganoes. They will not play any other a lets say personal gain role.

As for WJ, yup he's not coming back. Confirmed by Steven himself.

[Arkmam]

I too believe they will work only as protectors for the bridgeburners in general and Paran in particular.

"I bless you bridgeburners, one and all." kinda indicates that they were all blessed, and thus all ascended. But we'll see I guess.

[amirebram]

BUT Nok wasn't even in Malaz city when the whole thing went down! He has just heard stuff. The Empress doesn't even seem to be sure about exact details. Sorry/Apsalar's memories suggest that they were at least injured. And we know that they ascended; but did they ascend to avoid death? or did they ascend after death?

If they ascended after death, then why are they physical (or seem physical at least) while the BB are ghosts?

Baudin's father was there, but unfortunatly we can't ask him.