[Use Of Weapons]

Spoiler tooltip saving sentence. Is this enough? I bloody hope so, cos I hate typing crap...



Did AR throw his fight with Traveller in order to get into Dragnipur? That was the impression I got....

[Quick~]

He definately threw the ending, although I reckon from the way it went that Dassem was going to win anyway, especially with Rake being a bit worse for wear at that point. What I didn't really get was why he had to set it up so that Dragnipur was battered into his head, could he not have just stabbed himself with it?

[Lister of Smeg]

Yep. That's why Karsa called him a cheat. He had to get into Dragnipur in order to get to the gate to KG and be reunited with his mummy.

[blackzoid]

I don't get what Traveller was thinking. Hood was dead, what was the need to fight Rake? Didn't he see Hood's body right there? Was it becasue he wanted to kill Hood and let no-one else do it?

[phart]

Oops never saw this thread when i posted mine sorry, though i have a couple more questions as well, so hopefully ok.

Yeah he threw the fight as he needed to get in, Karsa shaken as well, and since he couldn't follow the speed of the swords i would assume a fight with either of them would result in a quick victory for DU over Karsa.

[Obdigore]

Phart, not anymore.

Remember the sword that Dassem was carrying was focused and made better by the will of the person. We know Dassem has a huge will, but if he wasn't convinced Karsa was an enemy, do you think he would be as good?

Now that his quest to kill hood is over, is Dassem a broken man, never to regain the same skill and will he had before?

[blackzoid]

But WHY did Traveller fight Rake? Surelly he say Hood dead without a head right there?
If his will was so focused on Hood, what was the reason (from Traveller's point of view) for fighting Rake. His vengenece was declared against Hood. Was it only because Cotillion told him it was necessary for Rake to get inside Dragnipur?

Side-note, Hood may be out of Dragnipur, maybe Traveller still has a chance.

[Quick~]

Quote

Side-note, Hood may be out of Dragnipur, maybe Traveller still has a chance.

this is something I've been pondering, just what Cotillion actually told him.

It may have been something about either breaking Dragnipur or killing Rake as being the only ways in which he'd ever have a chance of extracting Hood and then having his revenge upon him.

[phart]

or maybe DU wanted to be killed by Rake and go into Draginspur and get Hood, and was cheated when Rake let him kill him, it's in the book because it is a cool moment but since we don't know what was said, it can be hard to follow the logic.

[buddhacat]

It was multi-level plan: Hood dead and out of his role as King of HH Death (something that he wanted), Rake getting into Dragnipur to resolve KG Gate vs Chaos (something he wanted to do), Dassem's obsession answered and he can move on now. It was critical for the timing to be perfect, hence all the other pieces that moved - Caladan Brood kept away by order, Spinnock to delay Kallor, Shadow Hounds (assisted by Baruk's timely arrival) stopping Spite and Envy, Karsa and Seguleh 2nd (and Tulas Shorn and Barathol out of nowhere; I count Cutter out) to stop the Hounds of Light ....

What an awesome convergence. For me, this book now ranks as the 2nd best in the series after MoI.

It would have ranked as #1 if the Tyrant thread was not left dangling. So many pages spent on the Tyrant, Malazans, Mallet and others dying, and in the end ... nothing but Kallor drinking beer.

[BeLeG]

so is it confirmed that the seguleh second is the soldier of death?

[Illuyankas]

As he is actually called Second, I'd have to say yes.

[Aptorian]

I still don't get it.

Hoods body had been removed. This much is obvious. Dassem could sense Hood being nearby but not see him.

But why did Rake not just tell him the truth? Because he was worried that Dassem would throw himself on Rakes sword? Why did Dassem fight Rake in the first place? he could just had walked around if he suspected that Hood was in one of the surrounding houses or something. I mean, killing Rake wasn't going to get him any information about the Jaghuts whereabouts.

Rake doesn't seem like the type to make mistakes, so as Karsa claimed, I think Rake cheated and chose that last pose, bad angle and all on purpose. Strange that he didn't just commit sepuku instead though... why get Dassem involved?

"Hey Dassem old buddy, old pal, I killed the creepy Jaghut just a minute ago. That's right, he's in here *taps sword* whatcha' gonna do about it, huh? *Rake makes a rude gesture at Dassem*

[Illuyankas]

I still think it's down to Rake needing to die from Dragnipur, and also needing someone to keep Dragnipur safe from opportunists until Brood got there.

[Avon]

Dassem wasn't that someone though, he just left without doing anything else. Why did Rake and Brood goto Daru for that anyway, they could have just stayed in Black Coral.

[Optimus Prime]

ok I didn't read this but it looks like it could be a spoiler...sometimes you can see the first lines of a thread...so can you rename this so I'm not spoiled?!?!

Sorry I'm just super paranoid about it and I get the book today

[Illuyankas]

Just add a sentence or two at the start of the thread and it'll be obscured.

[buddhacat]

Aptorian;342598 said:

I still don't get it.

Hoods body had been removed. This much is obvious. Dassem could sense Hood being nearby but not see him.

But why did Rake not just tell him the truth? Because he was worried that Dassem would throw himself on Rakes sword? Why did Dassem fight Rake in the first place? he could just had walked around if he suspected that Hood was in one of the surrounding houses or something. I mean, killing Rake wasn't going to get him any information about the Jaghuts whereabouts.

Rake doesn't seem like the type to make mistakes, so as Karsa claimed, I think Rake cheated and chose that last pose, bad angle and all on purpose. Strange that he didn't just commit sepuku instead though... why get Dassem involved?

"Hey Dassem old buddy, old pal, I killed the creepy Jaghut just a minute ago. That's right, he's in here *taps sword* whatcha' gonna do about it, huh? *Rake makes a rude gesture at Dassem*

Compassion? It's a stretch, but I think may be the big players felt a need to help Dassem out by having him gain his vengeance while inadvertantly helping out the grand plan. Or something.

Protection of Dragnipur is a good choice, too, although since Dassem figured out the sort-of-suicide by Rake, he wasn't exactly functional. If he hadn't figured it out, though, he certainly would have protected it against Spite/Envy/Hounds of Light/random pedestrian.

[vaiski]

Well there were those cultists of Dessembrae.. could it be some sort of final push for Dassem to take up the godhood. Plenty of tragedy there.
I'm assuming that there isn't some sort of on/off switch since ST commented on his mortal needs when Dassem was close to dehydration and dying in the beginning.

[Illuyankas]

You probably still have mortal needs if you're a denier. I certainly know Rake ate and drank.