[Benji]

Jude, on Dec 1 2008, 09:21 PM, said:

This is very awesome of the Errant. I really want to re read RG for a number of reasons now.

People seem to be forgetting about Bottle's premonition. I for one say, "wtf!" Has bottle done this any other time? why was HE dreaming about Trull's impending take down. He has no connection with Trull at all. anyone have any theories on Bottle's apparent precog capabilities?

The Eres'al i'm guessing. Trull got raped by her and Bottle has a close connection to her. I'm assuming she gave Bottle the knowledge.

[The Drum]

Benji, on Dec 2 2008, 12:58 PM, said:

Jude, on Dec 1 2008, 09:21 PM, said:

This is very awesome of the Errant. I really want to re read RG for a number of reasons now.

People seem to be forgetting about Bottle's premonition. I for one say, "wtf!" Has bottle done this any other time? why was HE dreaming about Trull's impending take down. He has no connection with Trull at all. anyone have any theories on Bottle's apparent precog capabilities?

The Eres'al i'm guessing. Trull got raped by her and Bottle has a close connection to her. I'm assuming she gave Bottle the knowledge.

I can't remember Trull getting a bit off the Eres'al, I know she raped the ex-slave guy whos name i can never remember, you know, the one who used to love feather witch and that the Eres'al spanked bottle's monkey a few times, but when did she have a go at Trull?

[Aptorian]

I think it was in HoC, he somehow stumbles into an ancient memory of Seven Cities and an Eres'al, probably the Eres, jumps his bones.

[D'rek]

Trull, Onrack, Monok Ochem and the other remaining T'lan travel by Tellann to get to the first throne faster, and they go through tundra and then jungle. Just as they leave, Eres'al pops out of nowhere and gets jungle fever with Trull.

And I don't recall Udinaas sheboinging the Eres'al, I thought he was only raped by Menandore?

[heboric]

i think Trull might be an acendant (fightig Iccy longer than 1sec) but i dont know if he will return like hedge beacause of the some what confusing side effects Gothos frezzing.

[The Drum]

D'rek, on Dec 3 2008, 04:32 AM, said:

Trull, Onrack, Monok Ochem and the other remaining T'lan travel by Tellann to get to the first throne faster, and they go through tundra and then jungle. Just as they leave, Eres'al pops out of nowhere and gets jungle fever with Trull.

And I don't recall Udinaas sheboinging the Eres'al, I thought he was only raped by Menandore?

yep sorry, my bad, menadore it was.

[Fox]

I don't see The Errant's influence growing, at least not easily, since he's been replaced by both Oponn and Paran.
Also, the dude is a dick with some serious issues. I liked him at first, but no longer.
I mean he was screwing his own son for crying out loud!

This post has been edited by Fox: 07 December 2008 - 12:45 AM

[Wampyry]

CatKillerJoe, on Jun 26 2008, 08:50 PM, said:

I just finshed RG and very much enjoyed it. I am however confused a bit..at the end when the werrant was in the throne room with trull.. what exactly did he do? I mena i reread the whole chapter twice,but never found anything that showed what the errant did.

Another slant on the involement of the Errant.

A few weeks before the killing takes place Bottle in a deep sleep is mumbling about the owl, and the mice. Both connected to the WHite Crow, Silchas. Bottle says something like "he doesn't see the owl" and "talk to the mice they will tell you" The owl is an omen of something dangerous about to occur. The mice follow Silchas becasuse with him it's feeding time. How Bottle know this is unexplained. Eres'al might be feeding Bottle this information, but why?

Trull is in the arena craddling Rhulad body. Overcome by grief, He does not see the owl portent of danger. The Errant does not help him. Trull dies. The Errant stepped back from an unseen place, pulled away as if he would hurl himself from a cliff. He was what he was. A tipper of balances. And now, this day - may the Abyss devour him whole - a maker of widows. The Errant sadness is that of one who was involved in the murder - not just a passive observer.
What did the Errant do?

Chancellor Triban Gnol stepped back. The realization had come to him with the force of a hammer blow Rhuland will not return. He turned to his Finadd, Varat Taun, we are done here. Gather your soldiers and escort me to the throne room. The arena is empty except for Rhulad
So, the ramifications of the the Errant's nudge to Gnol to return to the throne room led directly to Trull's
death. This is why the Errant feels so guilty.

This post has been edited by Wampyry: 24 August 2009 - 11:17 PM

[Seras]

another question o.O
just finished re-reading RG and i came across this part, when Taralack Veed was thinking back on the history of his people, how they served Dessimbelackis, and the story about a squad of Gral killing off the remenants of the Eres'al, save for a small girl - the last of her kind. then a shadowy figure with seven hounds comes and saves her. if i'm correct Dessimbelackis (or however you spell his name) came before the Emperor, so Shadowthrone didn't ascend yet....so who is this guy?

[masan's saddle]

Got a page number for that there piece of info old chap ?

[Wampyry]

Erayle, on Aug 25 2009, 04:44 PM, said:

another question o.O
just finished re-reading RG and i came across this part, when Taralack Veed was thinking back on the history of his people, how they served Dessimbelackis, and the story about a squad of Gral killing off the remenants of the Eres'al, save for a small girl - the last of her kind. then a shadowy figure with seven hounds comes and saves her. if i'm correct Dessimbelackis (or however you spell his name) came before the Emperor, so Shadowthrone didn't ascend yet....so who is this guy?

The man is Dessimbelackis, not sure of the hounds. Believe they are the Deragoth since Dessi made a deal with them. The girl is an unknown. A lot of the members think it could be Kettle - the child with 148 personalities. I dunno

[lobo the wolfman]

As Wampyry says, since the tale is from the First Empire then it's more then likely Dessimbelackis with the Deragoth. The girl probably was Kettle.

[Epiph]

I don't think we KNOW that it's Dessimbewhozit, but it is likely.

[Seras]

thanks for all the replies, that helped me make sense of things xD

[D'rek]

If you belive that the hounds were the Deragoth, then the most likely result is it was Dessimbelackis. However, it could equally be Hounds of Shadow and not deragoth, and thus likely the man was the current Shadowthrone of that time (or the ruler of Shadow under another name).

[D'rek]

Wampyry, on Aug 26 2009, 09:45 AM, said:

Have a stramge experience here and I'm not even drinking. I made a post here between Masan's Saddle and Lobo the Wolfman. It's gone from the "Post in this Topic" yet Lobo the Wolfman quoted it. Further, I can find it if I use the Search enginge. Certainly nothing important - but weird!

Post #51? I can see it...

[Wampyry]

D'rek, on Aug 26 2009, 11:42 AM, said:

Wampyry, on Aug 26 2009, 09:45 AM, said:

Have a stramge experience here and I'm not even drinking. I made a post here between Masan's Saddle and Lobo the Wolfman. It's gone from the "Post in this Topic" yet Lobo the Wolfman quoted it. Further, I can find it if I use the Search enginge. Certainly nothing important - but weird!

Post #51? I can see it...

D'rek, I still can't see it unless I use the Search Engine. This whole post might have got mixed up on my computer. First post is 26 then the rest of page 1 is all 27. A lot of post # 52 on page 2 and 3

Thanks for your response, but forget it. It's not important unless it happens again.

[Dredge]

Some speculations:

The Eres'al
Everybody's favourite time-travelling fluffer. Her time-travelling aspect tends to be submerged under all the fuss about her sexual predilections, but I wonder if her connection with Bottle brought forth the precognition we see in his dream concerning the owl's shadow. Not directly, as an image or information passed into his unconscious mind, but rather that her ability to move through time manifested itself (within someone tightly bound to linear time) as a briefly passing ability to glimpse a fragment of the future.

(Although I recognise that it could just be an entirely innate ability of Bottle's, nothing to do with the Eres'al, with its source in the unorthodox training in magic he received from his granny, and/or a hereditary trait. Odd though, that he doesn't really seem to have a kind of "spider-sense" when awake that an overtly precognitive/intuitive person would presumably display, like Fiddler often does - if only in a very general way ("Fid's got a bad feeling about this"). Does he?)

The Errant
Earlier in RG there are Errant PoVs which talk about patterns. His natural fascination with them and with playing with them. This mostly comes out, IIRC, in his frustration at being unable to determine present patterns in Lether. In the context it arises, this seems to have more to do with Mael's possible intentions and/or the power lattice under the city and/or (possibly) Icarium's presence and devices in relation to the lattice and/or ... well, nothing so specific as to suggest the potential Sengar "dynasty" in Lether.

But, the death of Trull ends or clears one pattern: that of the Edur family of Sengar. He is the last of his family (pure-blood) which is of course the ruling family of Edur-occupied Lether. And it begins another pattern, or potential pattern: Trull's unborn child, who will be a half-blood Edur/Letherii, not born into power (we assume), but presumably fated for something important (given his origins), yet now without a direct connection to his Edur side, seeing as Daddy's dead. Hmmm.

The Owl
I don't have MT with me but I'm pretty sure Trull's opening sequence in MT (which is his first appearance in chronological time), as he is running home to tell everyone about the Letherii fleet culling seals, is introduced by way of an owl swooping down across the path he then runs along. And I have a faint feeling (pretty fuzzy and possibly wishful thinking) that there is at least one other moment featuring an owl and Trull, which may've seemed like incidental "colour" in the context it appeared, but, in hindsight, certainly seems more portentous.

EDIT: Actually, after a reread it's clear that the owl is a symbol of the Mortal Sword of Kurald Emurlahn (this is from a Hannan Mosag PoV), which fits with Trull's appearance as the Knight of Shadow in the Deck.

Regardless, both Trull's first (chronological) appearance and his final death are linked with owls. Is this simply nicely coloured writing, or indicative of a "pattern" (in the Errant sense)?

EDIT: So, does this still comprise an Errant-recognisable pattern?

And finally an obvious but kind of neat point
The Errant ensured Trull's death by making it so that Trull didn't notice a shadow.

This post has been edited by Dredge: 31 October 2009 - 07:07 AM

[Hetan]

[quote name='Wampyry' date='25 August 2009 - 10:55 PM' timestamp='1251240905' post='667706']
[quote='Erayle']another question o.O
just finished re-reading RG and i came across this part, when Taralack Veed was thinking back on the history of his people, how they served Dessimbelackis, and the story about a squad of Gral killing off the remenants of the Eres'al, save for a small girl - the last of her kind. then a shadowy figure with seven hounds comes and saves her. if i'm correct Dessimbelackis (or however you spell his name) came before the Emperor, so Shadowthrone didn't ascend yet....so who is this guy?[/quote]

[quote]The man is Dessimbelackis, not sure of the hounds. Believe they are the Deragoth since Dessi made a deal with them. The girl is an unknown. A lot of the members think it could be Kettle - the child with 148 personalities. I dunno
[/quote]

If the child is the last of the Eres, then why would anyone think it would be anything other than the Eres'al? After all she is the last of her kind.

[D'rek]

[quote name='Hetan' date='30 October 2009 - 02:20 PM' timestamp='1256926803' post='695989']
[quote name='Wampyry' date='25 August 2009 - 10:55 PM' timestamp='1251240905' post='667706']
[quote='Erayle']another question o.O
just finished re-reading RG and i came across this part, when Taralack Veed was thinking back on the history of his people, how they served Dessimbelackis, and the story about a squad of Gral killing off the remenants of the Eres'al, save for a small girl - the last of her kind. then a shadowy figure with seven hounds comes and saves her. if i'm correct Dessimbelackis (or however you spell his name) came before the Emperor, so Shadowthrone didn't ascend yet....so who is this guy?[/quote]

[quote]The man is Dessimbelackis, not sure of the hounds. Believe they are the Deragoth since Dessi made a deal with them. The girl is an unknown. A lot of the members think it could be Kettle - the child with 148 personalities. I dunno
[/quote]

If the child is the last of the Eres, then why would anyone think it would be anything other than the Eres'al? After all she is the last of her kind.
[/quote]

1. Because Bottle has a vision in tBH of a group of Eres, and he supposedly recognizes one of the adult women as the Eres'al, while that child would not have any other Eres to be around when adult. This can however be explained by time-travelling...

2. That child is the last of the Tasse, but who is to say that it is the last of the Eres?

3. As the Nerek believe, the Eres'al is supposed to be the *first* of the Eres, the purely most innocent of them because she is the first with true sentience. I'm rather certain this is further propagated by another character somewhere along the line (I'm thinking either Silchas Ruin or one of the T'lan Imass but not really sure). Furthermore: (TtH spoiler)
[spoiler] It is comparable to how Gothos speaks of Togg in TtH[/spoiler]