[Sir Bob]

they might not be tightly linked but if you spend a few weeks with someone that gets hit buy a personal tragedy you will surely start to think about your own family thus not been fully focused, this is obviously just my opinion cause im not in the dutch squad or a shrink but thats how i see it.
my second statement about spain not been as open as the dutch stands.

there was to much room betwen defence and mid and mid and strikers and i have not seen that with spain so thats my tuppance worth!!

[amphibian]

Sir Bob;337407 said:

they might not be tightly linked but if you spend a few weeks with someone that gets hit buy a personal tragedy you will surely start to think about your own family thus not been fully focused, this is obviously just my opinion cause im not in the dutch squad or a shrink but thats how i see it.

I don't follow soccer all that much. I'll tune into the World Cups and sometimes the Euros, but I don't know as much about the inner dynamics of teams as some of you guys do. If I'm wrong about soccer players being mostly an aloof bunch, correct me with some examples.

Right now, I see Guus Hiddink's recent successes as a product of whipping the players into the absolute best condition of their lives and giving them a solid gameplan. I don't think it's because the Russians work together particularly well or even like each other all that much.

The last soccer team I can remember that seemed locked into the team concept was the South Korean team of the 2002 World Cup, but I saw that as a function of their ridiculous fan support.

Oh, and the flopping needs to stop. This stuff is ridiculous. The organizations need to go after it hard, because it's ruining the primary ref's ability to accurately judge the severity of the foul.

[Gothos]

well, you might also note that the South Korean team in 2002 was also led by Guus Hiddink... :-)

[Tiste Simeon]

The thing is, amphibian, that a lot of these players will be deadly rivals for most of a season and then suddenly thrown in to a national side together for 2 weeks... The team dynamics are always going to be quite funny...

[amphibian]

Tiste Simeon;337873 said:

The thing is, amphibian, that a lot of these players will be deadly rivals for most of a season and then suddenly thrown in to a national side together for 2 weeks... The team dynamics are always going to be quite funny...

Are they really deadly rivals? Or is that mostly just a construct of the fans?

I know Rangers/Celtics is very real, but the others seem made up. I think the rules about transfers and player contracts makes team loyalty less important than in the past.

[Macros]

the other rivalriesare pretty big (the fucking crazies in spain/italy/ turkey for example), some players have openly said they would play for any club but ~insert rival of their childhood supported club here~ I've often wondered how they mesh on theinternational field, but I suppose they're professionals and jsut get on with it.

[Sir Bob]

claudio caniggia laughed when asked about how he would cope with the old firm fans saying he had played in boca vs river so this was childs play(or something like that) so the intensity of the match prob looks bigger if your from that place and every where else looks tame in conparision.(or is that kinda obvious i dont know)

[Thelomen Toblerone]

If I was a pro I'd never play for the Spud Scum, but people do, so clearly Im in a minority. Defoe was a lifelong Arsenal fan, Bentley was supposedly a Sp*rs fan, both played for opposite teams. To me, that's unfathomable and shows that that sort of player is in it more for the money and the glory than for pride.

[amphibian]

Thelomen Toblerone;338066 said:

If I was a pro I'd never play for the Spud Scum, but people do, so clearly Im in a minority. Defoe was a lifelong Arsenal fan, Bentley was supposedly a Sp*rs fan, both played for opposite teams. To me, that's unfathomable and shows that that sort of player is in it more for the money and the glory than for pride.

I would totally take money over pride.

I forgot to reply to this:

Gothos said:

well, you might also note that the South Korean team in 2002 was also led by Guus Hiddink... :-)

My impressions of Hiddink is that he isn't really a facilitator of strong team bonds. I think that it took the ridiculous crowd to push that team into the truly cohesive unit that they were and his Russian squad does not seem to possess that "all for one" mentality.

I never watched his club teams so I've only got three examples to work from (I was too young to really pay attention to Holland back in the 1998 World Cup).

[Cougar]

Toby, it's a career decision, Bentley might never have got an offer from another club. I think if you were offered the chance to play proffesional football you would, regardless of club. If my entire career rested on playing for Man City aged 14 I'd have done it. You can say you wouldn't because you'll never have to make the call, it's especially difficult to stick to principles when you are as thick as Bentley or Defoe and ar epicking between YTS forms at a football club and dole/Asda.

[Tiste Simeon]

Yeah it's very well for us to say that we would never do it, but I reckon if I needed to kick start my career, I would go with whoever signs the pay check...

[Macros]

I'd have a very hard time signing for the scum, if I thought nearly any other club was interested united couldnt offer me enough money to play for them.

[Cougar]

Yeah but if you thought it was your only chance of playing you'd have no choice. The difference between making it and not can be a very fine line and at 14 or 15 you can't be choosy. If you were a timid 14 year old Macros fresh from riding your horse bareback around your local estate etc and Ferguson told you he thought you were going to be the new George Best...or Keith Gillespie, better still the new Norman Whiteside you'd have signed. It's only from our lofty moral positions where we know this isn't ever going to happen that we can make such bold claims.

Dalgleish and Fowler are both examples of fans of one city club who ended up playing for their rivals.

I'd agree it's totally different of you were a massively famous and well established international, I mean you'd never forgive Gerard for going to United, Ronaldo to Liverpool or Raul to Barca.

[Macros]

true, were I a fresh faced lad handed a professional contract from a massive club it would be foolish to turn down, even if only to get yourself recognised and shift to a team you like.
Look a carra, he was a diehard everton fan and is now a kop hero, he wears the longsleeve jersey because he has an everton tattoo on his arm

[Tiste Simeon]

Though some make it I guess... Wes Brown for example. He will never go to another club (which is a shame cos he's not up to the same standards as Ferdinand and the others...)

[Flawed]

So, does anyone know what the odds are on Turkeys reserve goalie being played up front and scoring the winner?

Apparantly they only have 13 players for tonight and two of those are goalies.

I hope they win

[Tiste Simeon]

Well they may have to. I hope for their sake that they don't have anyone sent off...

[Aimless]

I'm gonna enjoy this game

Go you ugly bastards go!!

[Macros]

crackin game so far, pity aobut the bbc's shoddy commentar courtesy of motson

[Gothos]

now we just had another retarted referee decision. I've lost count so far this tournament, but it's really bullshit this year. that was an obvious, brutal foul on Lahm, and even if it wasn't inside the penalty box (on the border), Germany deserved a free kick and the turk deserved a booking.
really, it's time for monitoring in football.