[Mushroom]

Across the entire world a sense of elation was felt among people at the chance that America people could actually do some good

[Terez]

I'm sad there weren't more people around here that were excited about the results, but I had fun watching the returns with the non-Americans. A bunch more showed up, some from Europe in various places, and a couple of South Americans. They thought it was a great show.

[Mentalist]

congrats to the States....

[Osric]

HoosierDaddy, on Nov 4 2008, 09:34 PM, said:

frookenhauer, on Nov 4 2008, 03:22 PM, said:

eek! I'm so exited...why? Its not even my country! I blame the media...

I think that the U.S. crumbling world respect has a lot to do with this. It's harder to get things done around the world when the biggest power in the world is disrespected, disliked, hated, and every other major world power is suspicious of its intentions. Obama has promised to re-engage with the rest of the world on an even base, and not try to bully countries into doing what the U.S. wants. Plus, people don't like to admit how large an impact things in the U.S. have on their own country... but they do know it deep down, so you are obviously self-interested.

Well I agree that the US does have significant influence in the world, that's why Im interested. Mostly economical and political influence though. If the US falls and the stock market goes down even deeper then people are going to look for a replacement for the dollar, which isn't really there, the only thing that could replace it is the chinese money (whatever its called). Also political, I mean, what if you decide to invade Iran, and Iran builds a nuke? Entire world's gonna be fucked then, just one example.

I'm glad that there's gonna be change, the way America treats other countries is horrible, they even passed a law in america that apperently gives them the right to invade Holland and 'save' prisoners we have in the international court of the hague. No offense, but even though I doubt this is going to happen, it's a bit presumptious to make a law in your own country that says it's allowed to invade other countries, somehow I doubt that works. Also I remember back when America was about to invade Afganistan, the entire UN was against it but America went along with it anyway, cowing countries that were origionally against it to join them, cos we're pussies like that (Like holland). The UN was made for a reason, namely world war 2.

I do hope Obama changes the way America deals with countries but I don't think it's going to change that much, but we'll see I guess. No intelligent people really 'hate' america, and everybody can see the impact it has on their own countries and world. I do hope you realise that America isn't irreplacable and the entire world depends on it though.

[Terez]

I missed this post, Shin:

The 20th, on Nov 4 2008, 06:35 PM, said:

Terez, on Nov 4 2008, 08:15 PM, said:

Osric, on Nov 4 2008, 08:35 AM, said:

I dont really know what you mean? Voting against themselves? Isn't that the point of voting? If everybody agreed then voting wouldn't be necessary.

What he meant is that the Democrats represent the poor people, and the Republicans represent the wealthy, but it's generally the poor who vote Republican.

I'm sorry, but this is a tremendous misconception (not to mention a gross oversimplification).

You don't have to apologize, lol. Of course it's a gross oversimplification, but it's only a tremendous misconception in the sense that politics in Washington are corrupt on both sides and make mangled messes out of legislation, representing, for the most part, none of our interests...or in the sense that the black poor vote Democratic, and the white poor generally vote Republican, but the poor in general don't vote.

But I believe (though he can of course correct me if I'm wrong) that Obdi was mostly talking about the liberal ideal, that McCarthyism is an outdated dogma, and that just because you are successful does not mean that you have earned it, or worked any harder than a waitress who works 50 hours a week to make $300 and goes home to one or more children. Just because you are successful does not make you more talented, or a better potential benefit to society than that waitress. Can she get enough financial aid to go to school? Will she be able to afford to take care of her kids if she goes to school? Will she ever see them?

There are a lot of great nations in this world who have embraced socialistic principles and have succeeded. We, on the other hand, feel burdened by the legacy of the New Deal, and "socialist" has become a bona fide political slur.

I don't think that bracketed taxes, welfare, or any other form of socialism in government is in any way a slippery slope to evening out the humongous income stratification in our country. In a true Utopia, reward for working hard would be not money but the satisfaction of a job well done, or a contribution to society. But we're a long way from that.

[Terez]

Here are some more tools to show what I think Obdi was getting at, and also what Shin was getting at:

This post has been edited by Anomander: 05 November 2008 - 11:14 AM

[Osric]

That brings.. perspective.

Seems race really was an issue in this election. Maybe next time you'll get a mexican president?

This post has been edited by Osric: 05 November 2008 - 08:51 AM

[Terez]

Osric, on Nov 5 2008, 02:50 AM, said:

That brings.. perspective.

Seems race really was an issue in this election.

It always has been - blacks always have voted Democrat. Yeah, they did so a bit more this time. But not much:

[Osric]

Hmm I see, good point. But still dissapointing that the majorty of white people still prefer Mccain. Won't this create racial tensions? I can see bigots being angry that basically this president was elected because of the african american votes.

[Terez]

Well, black voters are only 13% of the voters, so obviously they couldn't have done it without us. So I hope they don't feel that way. You can't tell which way someone voted by the color of their skin, or even the bumper sticker on their car, but at least the Bradley Effect did not rear its ugly head.

[Terez]

Oh, and I should probably mention that "blacks have always voted Democrat" isn't really true. Lincoln was a Republican. The racists switched parties over the last century or so, starting around WWII and FDR. Even with the Civil Rights Act of 1964, it wasn't a Republican vs. Democrat battle so much as a North vs. South battle - Northern Dems and Repubs mostly voted in favor of it, while Southern Dems and Repubs mostly voted against it. The last Dixiecrat to get elected president was Jimmy Carter in 1976.

[Zakari39]

I do love all the nerdy stats and maps. Great fun. I stayed up til 2am and then had to go to bed. Bah to working!!

Some of the proposition results are dissapointing - agreeing to Stem Cell Research in MI is great, but CA will push thought the ban on gay marriage....same for Arizona, but they won't make it harder to hire illegal immigrants - priorities eh?!

[Terez]

Yes, it's definitely not a good night for America's most hated minority.

[Osric]

I really don't see why they keep changing the gay marriage thing. To me it's a basic right, like women that have the right to vote, black people have the same rights as white people, why is it still like that for gay people in america? I mean, it's getting worse. :S To me it seems really backwards and pathetic, compareble to third world countries.
Oh well. I didn't expect Obama becoming president changing the entire American view. Hopefully he manages to bring it forwards though, instead of backwards like it has been going for years.

[frookenhauer]

Well, that is awesome news. America is not a racist country. I went to sleep when Obama was almost certain top win, but there was still this nagging doubt in my mind...Lets hope he's not the antichrist

I'm so glad Palin will be shunted off elsewhere, hahahahha. She was the great white hype, along with that uber hero who couldn't keep his planes in one piece.

Well done America. The whole world is proud of you, I'm mostly confident with that last statement, I know I am.

[Obdigore]

Zakari39, on Nov 5 2008, 03:45 AM, said:

I do love all the nerdy stats and maps. Great fun. I stayed up til 2am and then had to go to bed. Bah to working!!

Some of the proposition results are dissapointing - agreeing to Stem Cell Research in MI is great, but CA will push thought the ban on gay marriage....same for Arizona, but they won't make it harder to hire illegal immigrants - priorities eh?!

Ban won't stick. It is being brought up in lawsuits in civil court right now, and very likely will make its way to the US Supreme Court where there will finally be an answer.

I hope it is the right one. 2 people deciding to spend their lives together (as if that is what marriage is anymore for the majority) irregardless of their sex is the way it should be. Does that mean I am attracted to men? No, but it does mean that I don't think other people should be allowed to do what they want in the privacy of their own homes? No.

Back on topic of Pres Election - TBH Terez I was quite suprised the vote was as close as it was down in your area of the country. I was expecing for of a 65+ for McCain - The last numbers I saw were him having 54-57%.

Also, what do you think Obama/Biden are going to do when Israel destroys Iran's nuclear facility? Iran will obviously call for war against Israel, will Obama and therefore the US stand by Israel if it does come down to fighting?

[Terez]

Obdigore, on Nov 5 2008, 04:57 PM, said:

Zakari39, on Nov 5 2008, 03:45 AM, said:

I do love all the nerdy stats and maps. Great fun. I stayed up til 2am and then had to go to bed. Bah to working!!

Some of the proposition results are dissapointing - agreeing to Stem Cell Research in MI is great, but CA will push thought the ban on gay marriage....same for Arizona, but they won't make it harder to hire illegal immigrants - priorities eh?!

Ban won't stick. It is being brought up in lawsuits in civil court right now, and very likely will make its way to the US Supreme Court where there will finally be an answer.

I hope it is the right one.

Me too. I hope it doesn't take too long - 30 states have amendments banning gay marriage now.

Obdi said:

Back on topic of Pres Election - TBH Terez I was quite suprised the vote was as close as it was down in your area of the country. I was expecing for of a 65+ for McCain - The last numbers I saw were him having 54-57%.

Well, in MS, 37% of the electorate is black, so I knew better than to think it would be that wide of a margin. I was actually disappointed at how wide it was.

Obdi said:

Also, what do you think Obama/Biden are going to do when Israel destroys Iran's nuclear facility? Iran will obviously call for war against Israel, will Obama and therefore the US stand by Israel if it does come down to fighting?

I really don't know what to expect here. I know Obama is listening to Powell and Biden, but I hope he's listening to a lot of other people too.

[amphibian]

Can we get a lock from a mod? The election's done and over with.

And Barack Obama's campaign has changed the way politics will be done for the next generation or two. It was that good. Look at this piece: http://discussionleader.hbsp.com/haque/200..._for_radic.html

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

amphibian, on Nov 5 2008, 08:59 PM, said:

Can we get a lock from a mod? The election's done and over with.

And Barack Obama's campaign has changed the way politics will be done for the next generation or two. It was that good. Look at this piece: http://discussionleader.hbsp.com/haque/200..._for_radic.html

I don't think a lock is needed. Yeah, the election is over, but it's reasonable to expect people to want to discuss a historic moment for a couple of days. What's it hurt that the discussion goes on? You wouldn't be a bitter McCain frog by any chance, are you?

[Terez]

Well, I think everyone is a bit worn out by the election. But that's all the more reason why no lock is needed - the thread will likely die on its own before too long.