[Cougar]

Title says it all really, I expect England to be completely outlplayed by the Blacks. 50 points in each test and England to score no more than 2 tries.

[Binder of Demons]

I don't know. There's a lot of turnover in the All-Blacks camp recently, so maybe they won't be as fluid as they could be. And I don't know if their pack will be as strong as in recent years.

That said I know nothing of how England are prepared. You should be able to keep them under 50 surely?

How about you try and convince the All Blacks that the test matches are like a 2-leg semi-final of the World Cup. Then you're pretty much assured that the Kiwis will choke. Simple.

I hope the northern hemisphere teams give them a real fright because it's quite nauseating to be living down here and listening to the constant bleating about NZ being the best at rugby etc, and then casually skip over the World Cup every 4 years.

Ever think they'd have a playoff between the Heineken Cup champions and the Super-14 champions for a world title. Since they both finish around the same time, it's should be feasible?

[dktorode]

Binder of Demons;320975 said:

Ever think they'd have a playoff between the Heineken Cup champions and the Super-14 champions for a world title. Since they both finish around the same time, it's should be feasible?

were would they play it though?

[Cougar]

Binder of Demons;320975 said:

Ever think they'd have a playoff between the Heineken Cup champions and the Super-14 champions for a world title. Since they both finish around the same time, it's should be feasible?

I was thinking how cool this would be on Saturday, I've my doubts about the first line defence in super 14 (missed tackles) but the attacks are so slick and the rucking in Southern Hemisphere Rugby is awesome.

There are already too many fixtures though so I can't see it and you wouldn't want it to be like the debacle we have in Rugby League where the Aussie champs turn up 5 weeks before their season starts, unfit and play the English Champs who have started the season and are fit an fresh.

[Cougar]

dktorode;320993 said:

were would they play it though?

Directly on the equator, on neutral ground, Equatorial Guinea?

[dktorode]

Cougar;321000 said:

Directly on the equator, on neutral ground, Equatorial Guinea?

hmmm...crowd might the a bit scarce don't you think

[Binder of Demons]

On the Equator? Then how about Ecuador. At high altitude. Yeah the fun.

I'm sure if enough money was involved it could happen somewhere. South Africa wouldn't be a bad compromise if a Kiwi or Aussie side is in the final, but would obviously provide an advantage should a South African side win. But the fact that the seasons are pretty much aligned in both hemispheres means it could happen a lot easier than the Rugby League one does.

A bigger problem would probably be the interpretation of the rules between the two hemispheres.

[dktorode]

get a ref from Ecuador then!

[Cougar]

Well reffing interpretaions are a problem in any international anyway so the rules wouldn't be an issue, I think Europe are adopting some of the Stellenbosch rules next year too.

[caladanbrood]

I made a thread a while ago about Stellenbosch with details of what rules we're trialing net year;) I'm assuming they're not in effect for this tour though.

To add to England's thrashing, Sackey and Hipkiss have both been ruled out of the tour through injury. It's gonna be worse than the South Africa tour at this rate... and of course not yet having a head coach properly in charge won't exactly help now, will it.

England's most important thing to do is to play with serious levels of discipline that they haven't often bothered with before. And with Borthwick as captain, my hopes for that aren't too high.

[Cold Iron]

No competition, there's just too many northern hemisphere teams to compete. Maybe a super-14s champ v. heineken cup all-stars.

[Cold Iron]

In fact, I think we can all agree we've always wanted to see a SH v. NH all-star game.

*wets-self*

[Cougar]

Cold Iron;322310 said:

No competition, there's just too many northern hemisphere teams to compete. Maybe a super-14s champ v. heineken cup all-stars.

Thats not feasible, the Super 14 team would destroy them since they wouldn't have played together before.

The participation in Europe is higher so your assumption is faulty, also there are only a few top clubs who have most of the best players, Wasps,Toulouse or Munster, maybe the Ospreys too, would pose serious questions of any of the Super 14 sides. In comparison Worcester, Ulster, Dragons or Edinburgh would get bummed.

[caladanbrood]

Cold Iron;322311 said:

In fact, I think we can all agree we've always wanted to see a SH v. NH all-star game.

Definitely. In fact, I'd like to see a SH version of the lions that tours the NH every few years. They'd likely do quite a bit better than the lions too;)

[Cougar]

caladanbrood+;322785 said:

Definitely. In fact, I'd like to see a SH version of the lions that tours the NH every few years. They'd likely do quite a bit better than the lions too;)

Brood that is a totally gay idea. They'd never get along and the Lions is at least founded on the fact that at some stage we were actually GB and have a shared, not to mention geographically linked heritage.

[Cold Iron]

Cougar;322476 said:

The participation in Europe is higher so your assumption is faulty, also there are only a few top clubs who have most of the best players, Wasps,Toulouse or Munster, maybe the Ospreys too, would pose serious questions of any of the Super 14 sides. In comparison Worcester, Ulster, Dragons or Edinburgh would get bummed.

I'll give you any of the top 3 h-cup teams v. any of the top 10 super 14s teams = close, except crusaders.

Crusaders at the end of a super 14s season would probably win a world cup. They would have won last world cup anyway.

[caladanbrood]

All in all, this is a better result than I was expecting (no, really). Clearly defence needs vast amounts of improvement, but it could have been a lot worse.

[Fid]

I agree that could have been worse but the worrying thing is that Hodgson is just so frail defensively and there is not an obvious replacement playing 10 regularly. The last two tries were so frustrating - how could we give things away so easily. I also was concerned that when England did show the right character there was no incisiveness in attack other than Ojo -though as most of the backs had not played all together before it will wear off.....hopefully. The likelihood is that this will be only time that England tour NZ before RWC 2011 - so having an idea of the size of the task should focus them on what they have to do. I am sure Jonno's brows beetled for quite a bit of the time - but as a development experience will be stored away in the cupboard

[Cougar]

Don't be fooled by the score England got served, NZ took their foot off the pedal.

[Cougar]

Well not quite as bad as I expected but I thought the Blacks took it easy fir long periods in the second half of both games.

Having watched the games it's my opinion that the Northern hemisphere teams are going to have to stop focusing on defence now we will all be playing the ELVs. We had a briefing at my Rugby Union club last week and we are changing our teactics root and branch. The NH teams must do this or face hammerings.

I think only Haskell, Rees, Care and Ojo came out of the tour with any credit. Andrew was made to look like the old school tie dinosaur he really is.

I was impressed by the rucking of England the competed well, I expected excellent work from the Blacks as I do with any SH team, but England were very competitive which shows they have been taking notice of developments in the world game in that area at least.

That said NZ lineout is attrocious and if it doesn't improve Botha and Matfield will be taking candy from babies all day for the 'Boks.