[paladin]

is it racism if you hate everyone? maybe thats specism?

[Shinrei]

What do people think about hate crime legislation? Should punishments be more severe if it can be proven that the crime was motivated by racism?

I'm not sure how I feel about this, simply from the standpoint that sometimes it must be pretty hard to prove that the motive was racial, homophobic or whatever. Traditionally the law punishes the act, and this seems a little more like thought-policing. I do however acknowledge that racially motivated crimes happen, and this should be factored into sentencing (just like judges apply penalties currently based on the heiniousity level of the crime)

And yes, I just made up the word "heiniousity.

[Terez]

I think that the punishment for the major stuff should be harsh whether it was racially motivated or not. I think the hate crimes should be publicized more, though, so that people are aware of the fact that racism/homophobia etc. is still alive and well.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Shinrei no Shintai;327810 said:

And I remain firm in my belief that highly qualified blacks ARE getting positions higher in government, business, education etc, .

You're right. They are. Thanks to AA. Without AA, many of these highly qualified blacks would still be getting passed over. Granted, without AA some of them still would get the good jobs, but many would have been denied because of racism. The way I see it, AA is a temporary thing. Eventually, because of it, people will be used to seeing blacks in positions of power, and there will be enough blacks in those positions to ensure that it's not a white guy club any more. This is already happening to a certain extent, but not enough to justify doing away with AA. Eventually though, in theory, AA laws will be gotten rid of because they are obsolete.

[Shinrei]

Do you know that for sure RLY? Is there anywhere you can get statistics on how many it has actually helped? I'd be interested in someone (maybe you ) interviewing, say, the CEO of American Express and asking him "so are you greatful to AA for getting you here?"

There are pretty significant members of the black community who view AA as insulting and would rather it didn't exist. Obviously those who are successful would like to quell any speculation that they got to where they are due to AA.

To be honest, before this debate on this board I thought AA was mostly for college entrance and not so much in the work world anyway. The phrase I always hear from companies is "equal opportunity employer", which implies no discrimination rather than any quota system.

[Terez]

As far as I'm aware, there's no mandated quota for minorities in the workforce, but if someone files a discrimination suit, then a lack of diversity strengthens the plaintiff's case, so individual businesses often have internal quota policies.

[paladin]

some states had affirmative action quotas in place for both state jobs and state run secondary education systems, though those have dropped away for the most part

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Shinrei no Shintai;328153 said:

Do you know that for sure RLY? Is there anywhere you can get statistics on how many it has actually helped? I'd be interested in someone (maybe you ) interviewing, say, the CEO of American Express and asking him "so are you greatful to AA for getting you here?"

There are pretty significant members of the black community who view AA as insulting and would rather it didn't exist. Obviously those who are successful would like to quell any speculation that they got to where they are due to AA.

To be honest, before this debate on this board I thought AA was mostly for college entrance and not so much in the work world anyway. The phrase I always hear from companies is "equal opportunity employer", which implies no discrimination rather than any quota system.

No, I don't have the numbers in front of me. This is making me chuckle actually, go to the joke thread and read the joke I recently posted about arguing over the internet. Anyways, I'm sure there are mixed feelings among blacks about AA. There's probably some who would deny that they were AA hires, even if they were. However, there are just as likely blacks who would rather be considered an AA hire, than to not have a job. This reminds me of a Dave Chappelle joke along the same lines, that he would rather have someone call him an AA guy than broke.

I don't think it's the perfect system, but it's better than doing nothing. The point of it though, is not for AA to "get them there." The point is for AA to make it possible for their qualifications to get them there.

As I have said, it's not a perfect system, but I feel it's naive to expect the word to change anytime soon in regards to racism without forcing people change. If a lot of negative treatment of minorities hadn't been made illegal or regulated by law, it would still be happening. Hopefully, we will get to a point where race won't be a factor in hiring practices, and we will need no laws to regulate such things. I don't think we're at that point now.