[stone monkey]

Absolutely, but they're not slaughtering anywhere as near as many people as you white folks have done over the last century, are they?

[Battalion]

stone monkey;318313 said:

Although, as I learned from bitter experience at an early age and the history of at least the past century or so teaches; the most dangerous thing in the world is a large group of white people.

Your bitter experience can't that bad, and they (white people) can't be that dangerous ... you're still around, writing nonsense on internet forums.

[stone monkey]

I am still around to write nonsense, I knew a couple of people who aren't.

[Nightmare]

stone monkey;318344 said:

Absolutely, but they're not slaughtering anywhere as near as many people as you white folks have done over the last century, are they?

who said I was white? I wasn't aware that people were tallying up the death tolls as commited by whites and blacks. You obviously are though.

[Obdigore]

ITT: Racist people saying racism is wrong.

[The Tyrant Lizard]

stone monkey;318313 said:

If they hadn't been fucked over for it, it'd still be theirs....

As for the subjugation thing, one way of overcoming your fear of someone who's different to you is to arrange to humiliate and debase them and everyone like them for, oh say a few centuries. Of course what this does is build in a new fear, namely what these people might do to you if they ever get away from your control...

Fear quite easily leads to ignorance (and vice versa in my experience) having met a number of people in my lifetime who were terrified of me simply because of the colour of my skin without actually having any knowledge of anything about me or the culture I'm from. They just thought that black people were violent and stupid; and that was that.

I personallly don't agree with reparations, too long has passed. But I can quite easily see why certain sections of various communities might. If you want to look merely at the Native American case; treaties were made in good faith by the various Native American Nations and then repeatedly broken by US government and no reparations made for this (for background I'd advise reading Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee by Dee Brown - if the thing doesn't simultaneously make you extremely annoyed and want to weep you are dead inside)

Any number of books about the slave trade will tell you about the treaties made by slaveholding Nations with the various African nations that were reneged upon. At least one African King found himself overthrown (and ironically enough, enslaved) by the British when trying to end the trade in his nation.

Although, as I learned from bitter experience at an early age and the history of at least the past century or so teaches; the most dangerous thing in the world is a large group of white people.

I disagree with your last comment. Who is to say how many people black leaders would have killed if they had access to the same weaponry as white people? And that's not to mention if one or two fundamentalist Muslims got their hands on an A-bomb or two. They wouldnt think twice about dropping them.

You generalising and saying the most dangerous thing in the world is a large group of white people is blatantly a racist remark. your personal experiences do not indicate the entire race.

[Mezla PigDog]

As far as positive discrimination in employment goes, I'm all up for it but have never seen it. As a white woman in the UK, I'd like to see more women encouraged into the top jobs in my field. A combination of positive discrimination and helping women maintain their career after having children is required. Women of childbearing age are looked at as a risky employment option. The question "Are you planning to start a family soon?" has been asked of my female colleagues during promotion negotiations with the Old Boys on more than one occasion.

Positive discrimination by definition needs to screw over white people (mainly males) so that a generation from now, businesses and institutions etc have an embedded management section that will employ fairly. And it's not just about numbers in the board room. The people given higher paid jobs by positive discrimination will then have more affluent families, their children will go to better schools and will then not need to be helped into top jobs. The trickle down effect will spread even further than that into whole communities.

If a white person still has trouble finding work then it's their own problem as I'm concerned. Relatively speaking, we hold all the cards and have all the options.

[Obdigore]

Mezla PigDog;318402 said:

As far as positive discrimination in employment goes, I'm all up for it but have never seen it. As a white woman in the UK, I'd like to see more women encouraged into the top jobs in my field. A combination of positive discrimination and helping women maintain their career after having children is required. Women of childbearing age are looked at as a risky employment option. The question "Are you planning to start a family soon?" has been asked of my female colleagues during promotion negotiations with the Old Boys on more than one occasion.

Positive discrimination by definition needs to screw over white people (mainly males) so that a generation from now, businesses and institutions etc have an embedded management section that will employ fairly. And it's not just about numbers in the board room. The people given higher paid jobs by positive discrimination will then have more affluent families, their children will go to better schools and will then not need to be helped into top jobs. The trickle down effect will spread even further than that into whole communities.

If a white person still has trouble finding work then it's their own problem as I'm concerned. Relatively speaking, we hold all the cards and have all the options.

So Mezla, what you are saying is that to get rid of racism in the future, the government needs to support racism?

[Nequam]

Quote

Although, as I learned from bitter experience at an early age and the history of at least the past century or so teaches; the most dangerous thing in the world is a large group of white people.

Uhhh...that's pretty racistm and plain stupid. A group of angry white people is no more dangerous than a group of angry black people. It depends on what they are angry about. ...Wait you didn't even say angry white people! So you are saying that if there was a group of Scottish people celebrating their culture in a park (having a cookout or something) they are the most dangerous thing in the world? Because they are white? Bullshit.

I was staying out of this conversation because I have such a lack of life experience about all this. I have only been alive over 15 years...not a very long time, I sure as hell don't know a lot about the world, especially racism. But this has to be one of the most racist things I've read (I don't read much about racism). There is no one group of people more dangerous than another because of their race. It all comes down to how you were raised and what you've experieced. So far, I have personally never seen an act of racism. Not once, but I guess they happen. Yet because of my non-experience of racism I am completely non-racist. I have many black friends, hispanic friends, white friends, etc. etc. (some I'm not even sure of ). I treat them by how they act, and they return the favor. If I saw a black person walking down the street I don't get scared because their black. But if they had a gun in their hand...then yeah I'd be freakin out. But I wouldn't be more scared of black people from then on. Same with any race. I'm glad to say that I'm able to see an idividual before their race. I think it was because of how I was raised and what I've experienced.

All this talk about a race of people needing generations to bounce back doesn't make much sense to me. All that is needed is the absence of racism, and the next generation of any race will have just as much a chance at succeeding as anyone else. So it's not the race that needs time to bounce back, it's racism that apparently needs time to die down. And I for one don't see much sense in the whole affirmative action thing. Somones race should never be a deciding factor. If the white guy is more qualified, he should get the job. If a black is more qualified, then he should get the job.

[Obdigore]

Technically Nequam,

If there is no racism however a large percentage of a certain race is poor and unable to get higher education, then they cannot make enough money to move out of their poor area. Their children are raised in the poor area, and the cycle repeats, except for a select few that make it out.

That is why I support taking all the money going into and spent enforcing the hiring laws to be changed to help pay for higher education, both in public schools, and 'uni' tuitions for those who are intelligent enough to make use of them but cannot afford them.

[Mezla PigDog]

Obdigore;318404 said:

So Mezla, what you are saying is that to get rid of racism in the future, the government needs to support racism?

You pedant! Positive discrimination is racist by definition. Perhaps the phrase "affirmative action" will protect my delicate sensibilites a little more.

I think a combination of that and Obdi's education idea is about the only option to shrink the racial divide in some communities.

[Obdigore]

Mezla PigDog;318427 said:

You pedant! Positive discrimination is racist by definition. Perhaps the phrase "affirmative action" will protect my delicate sensibilites a little more.

I think a combination of that and Obdi's education idea is about the only option to shrink the racial divide in some communities.

Any and all changes to how you view/treat someone due to their race is racism. Affirmative Action is inherantally racist. I am not saying some sort of Affirmative Action is not needed, but that does not disclude the fact that it is racist.

[Astra]

Xander;318051 said:

My younger brother, who is homosexual, deals with this all the time. You would not believe how often he gets harassed.

How do they know about his sexual habbits? I am sure no one around me knows about my private sexual life.

[Obdigore]

Astra;318445 said:

How do they know about his sexual habbits? I am sure no one around me knows about my private sexual life.

I do and let me say, I want to party with you!

Seriously, unless someone broadcasts their sexuality, there is really no way to tell unlike someone's race.

[Macros]

stone monkey;318313 said:

Although, as I learned from bitter experience at an early age and the history of at least the past century or so teaches; the most dangerous thing in the world is a large group of white people.

wow

I was rendered speachless by this statement, and I don't want to sound like I'm piling abuse on you as most people have already commented on this statement.
But thats ridiculously racist.
Lets look at what happened once the white man started selling guns to the african nations wholesale and gave them the ability to wreck havoc on a large scale.
Rwanda, Congo, Somalia, Sudan, Nigeria, Uganda
These purges have led to mass migratoins which exacerbate the prolems of famine and poverty, leading to even more deaths.
Nothing more dangerous than a large group of white people?
Statments like that are what contribute to the continuation of racism, and other biggotry, that wasnt a joke, it was a flat out statement of your opinion, its narrow minded and I don't care what your experiences are, totally unfounded.

[Shinrei]

I know I've hammered this before, but education education education is the key IMHO. Do whatever it takes to level the playing field when everyone is a child, and let the kids who develop into adults through this education system sort out however they are inclined after that.

That kills the need for quotas, government mandates and would be far more effective than what Mezla called a "trickle down effect" of affirmative action.

Quality education for all would be the real equalizer. Pay teachers more. Give school districts more money to spend on materials, technology etc. Drop the ridiculous national standardized tests which are a waste of time and money. Encourage more "magnet schools", etc.

Affirmative action is a discriminatory bandaid which distracts from what could actually better solve the problem.

[Macros]

again I find my self agreeing with Shinrea, you sure you wont change your foolish notions on tipping?
breaking the cycle needs to start at the base level
If a child sees their father/ mother get a job through AA because of their race and they werent supremely qualified they'll get the idea they can slide by on the race card aswell.
The focus needs to be on keeping kids in schools, breaking up the yobbish/gang cultures of inner cities where "nerds" are forwned upon

[Obdigore]

I agree Sinrei, but I think that... I guess the best term is 'disadvantaged' people, need help with College/University tuitiion as well.

[Macros]

I'm not sure about absentmindedville, but theres bursaries given to students who are unlikely to be albe to apy their way at college here, and emergency funds in th euis themselve if someones getting it tight for money to survive. Considering most cities now have universities and with student loans / goverenment bursaries the only problem is grades/ ambition

[Obdigore]

In absentmindedville the federal government will allow you to take out loans, if you qualify... but good luck qualifying if you are living in a ghetto or trailer park.