[Abyss]

So over in the Dresden thread and elsewhere, some peeps have suggested that i check out this series by Mike Carey, whose other claim to fame is writing the Lucifer comic book, which was a spin-off of Gaiman's Sandman, for what it's worth.

The Dresden x-ref and Gaiman link (and my usual faith in forum reco's, thanx muchly people!) were enough for me to pick up the first and second books, THE DEVIL YOU KNOW and VISCIOUS CIRCLE.

I like.

Let's get the obvious out of the way. Similarities (first persona narrator, urban fantasy, sort-of-detective magic using protagonist) aside, this is not Jim Butcher's Dresden. The magic is less overt, the protagonist is less powerful, the world is just a bit more 'real' and grounded, at least so far in the series.

Also, Carey is thoroughly British, and the series is set in London, so the slang and settings and cultural refs may be a bit odd to a north american reader.

That said, Carey has created a believable world, with some interesting things in the background (the dead just started rising with frequency about a decade ago, no one is sure why tho there are theories, none of them pleasant). His supporting cast (by example, Castor's possessed best friend) are good additions to the story without stealing the show, and the stories move along at a decent pace (tho far from the breakneck pace Butcher usually sets, when things get crazy, they do get crazy and Carey writes action very well from the pespective of mere mortal trying hard not to die while supernatural thingies are fighting around him).

If you're an urban fantasy fan, this is worth a look. It's not 'fake sick and read it in a day' fantasy, but it is fun and while i'm not adding Carey to my 'buy in hardback asap' list anytime soon, i'll cheerfully pick up the mmpbs.


one further note for discussion if you've read the series...

SPOILERS SPOILERS FELIX CASTOR SPOILERS SPOILERS WILL
POSSESS YOUR CORPSE AND MIND FUCK IT WITH A
SPOILERS FUCKING SHOVEL SPOILERS DO NOT FUCKING SPOILERS
READ THIS SPOILERS I SWEAR SPOILERS LAST CHANCE DIE ZOMBIE
SCUM DIE SPOILERS

Spoiler

Juliet. GREAT character. From her pursuit of Castor in TDYK (and that thoroughly cool confrontation with the blood faced ghost) to her semi-sidekick status in VC, she was totally fun to read about and one of the high points in the series. Her dialogues with Castor were priceless.

Tho i think Carey was taking the piss with her lesbian experimentation at the end of VC.

- Abyss, will never trust old buildings in London...

[Morgoth]

I read this for about a year ago I think, and enjoyed it well enough. Nothing fantastic sure, but I didn't regret taking the time to read them. Am probably going to pick up the third book too one of these days.

[Abyss]

Morgoth;303385 said:

...Am probably going to pick up the third book too one of these days.

It's sitting on my to-read pile, somewhere below Butcher and Abercrombie's latest.

The series lived up to your comments in the Dresden thread - not teh awesome, but a good read.

- Abyss, notes his to-read pile is starting to tilt dangerously...

[Morgoth]

Abyss;303401 said:

It's sitting on my to-read pile, somewhere below Butcher and Abercrombie's latest.

The series lived up to your comments in the Dresden thread - not teh awesome, but a good read.

- Abyss, notes his to-read pile is starting to tilt dangerously...

I made a comment about it in the dresden thread? I can't remember that . Glad that my suggestion turned out welcome

[Zanth13]

Interesting...

I have seen this book before on Amazon and it didnt catch my eye to much... i might have to reconsider.

like byssy this forum has yet to let me down with book recomendations.
thought this is going to have to go on the bottom of my list (which is at the bottom of a pile of books)

I am in a reading slump right now... I should be finishing up The Gunslinger but instead I just keep watching House.... I also need to pick up Lies of Lock...

not to mention I have two of the Korbal & bauch... books to read...

Zanth, needs motivation...

damn House M.D. for being so interesting.

[Abyss]

Zanth - clearly, you have problems.

That's a hell of a backlog. You might as well wait until you actually need something to read, then grab them all in one fell british exorcist sex demon undead werewolf satanically possessed swoop!

Apprently the 4th Castor book, THICKER THAN WATER, appears in the near future, no definite date yet.

- Abyss, notes there is a distinct lack of sex demons in moden literature...

[Morgoth]

Abyss;304125 said:

- Abyss, notes there is a distinct lack of sex demons in moden literature...

discounting all japanese entertainment of course

[Abyss]

Good point.

Pervert.


- Abyss, ...is just saying...

[polishgenius]

I do likey the series. As has been said, it's not right at the top of the pile but it's a diverting read and I tend to finish them sharpish. Abyss sums it up really. Having read the third I won't comment much to avoid ruining it, but it does raise the game a little bit, in regards to a wider plot and within the book itself (iirc it's a slightly larger tome than the previous two and it shows). It's also ups the action a bit. The best so far I think.

The thing is that although it isn't Dresden, it's similar enough that you'll always be comparing the series, and imo the one place where Butcher really tops Carey is in the supporting cast. They seem to have less depth and are just a little defined by their foibles, particularly Nicky and thingy who's name I've forgotten who's possessed (Juliet gains some character in the third I think else I'd have named her). And the more normal ones don't get enough screentime. Hopefully as the series kicks into gear we'll get more out of them.
It's an odd one, because the support in Carey's Lucifer and Hellblazer comics is absolutely stellar. Although that's another thing - any familiarity with the John Constantine of comics will cause comparison with Castor, as Carey has clearly taken the same streetwise magician pattern as Moore and the rest did when creating Hellblazer, although Felix is in general a much less abrasive chap.

Nonetheless, yeah, I enjoy the series. Witty, smart and generally fun.

[Abyss]

The HELLBLAZER/CONSTANTINE analogy is also accurate, and i agree not nearly as bitter/cynical. I suppose enough time has passed since i read HB that it wasn't present in my brain.

Really, it's almost unfair to compare to Butcher - Carey is writing supernatural mystery with action elements. Butcher basically writes well plotted action quest movies.

Fundamentaly, while Rafi and others are interesting, most don't have the sheer presence of Murphy or some of Butcher's other supporting cast. That said, Murphy was more of an antagonist to Dresden for the first few books. She really only came into her won later in the series, and the Dresden series is 10 or so books along. Carey's only on #3, shortly 4.

Some supporting cast discussion below SPOILER
BLOCKED
SPOILERS
SPOILERS

Spoiler

Pen is just outright boring. I liked when she shotgunned Juliet, but really, she spends a lot of time mothering Felix and whining about Rafi.

Rafi and Asmodeus are one of the most interesting plot elements. That said, in VC Felix basically goes directly up against As' and not once, not once does the devil acknowledge him directly.

Felix's priest brother is an interesting concept, but only had minimal screen time so far.

Nicky is fun enuf, and Juliet's great.

I can see Carey's developing a wider storyline and i remain curious enuf to stick with the series. As mentioned, am looking fwd to reading the 3rd, just not bumping it ahead of other faves.

I don't want to damn the series with faint praise -it's good enough to enjoy reading, just not 'holy fuck give me the next book NOW and lock me in a room with some coffee and oreos' good.

- Abyss, also, Mtn Dew and Doritos....

[Abyss]

Just finished DEAD MAN'S BOOTS...

Totally enjoyed. The series improves and i really enjoyed this one. Castor grows as a character and so does his cast.

Jumping to an earlier point in the discussion, the series moves a wee bit closer to Dresden greatness with this book. A bit more action, a bit more wider story, and some great moments on top of the usual good. I liked.

SPOILERS
SPOILERS
DEAD MAN'S SPOILERS

Spoiler

Start with the obvious - Juliet rocks this book. She steals every scene she's in, her dialogue is perfect. Carey clearly REALLY loves writing this character and it shows.

Castor is better here. He's less bitter, less out of his depth and when he knows he's up against it, his fatalistic fuck-em-i'm-still-gonna-mess-their-shit-up attitude is perfect.

One of the things that bothered me about this book is the visual of the protagonist basically blowing his whistle at the badguys just seemed visually silly. Not only does it work even better here but Castor's experiments with drumming add a whole other dimension to it. His takedown of the 'divers' werewolf was great for all that he basically whistled it to death.

I'm intrigued by The Great Project and how it fits into the wider story. Moloch was a great baddy/ally and i liked the whole notion of the gangster resurrection cartel.

Pen was far less annoying and the sideplot with Rafi was a nice addition to the story.

carey still deftly avoids the trap of just making this a text version of Constantine or Lucifer but keeps the urban fantasy and clever character interaction that those works shine for.

All in all, i liked and will pick up the next book.

- Abyss, liked.

[polishgenius]

I've just started reading Thicker than Water - intriguing so far. Juliet grows on me by the book, and judging by the first 100 pages the supporting cast in general seems to be getting more time.

It does though, for the first time, veer perilously close to his run on Hellblazer - a character here is a virtual lift of one in that series. I think he's even got the same name.

I'll post proper thoughts when I'm done...

[polishgenius]

Good stuff. More in tune with the first two books than the third one, with more emphasis on dread than action, but as I thought also more emphasis on supporting characters- Matthew is given a fair bit of time here, and all the others have a bit too. There are a few interesting twists and revelations as far as the over-arching plot goes. Probably the best one so far - again.
The Hellblazer stuff was a touch odd, but I suspect that it's down to him drawing on his own experience for both stories rather than cribbing from one story for the other- he says so in an 'extras' interview, anyway.

This post has been edited by polishgenius: 16 April 2009 - 01:30 PM

[Abyss]

I had completely forgotten the 4th book was due out. Tnx for the reminder, going searching now.

- Abyss, not just whistlin' Dixie....

[polishgenius]

Are y'all on the far side of the pond up to speed with release dates yet, then?

[polishgenius]

Just got the most recent one of these, The Naming of the Beasts. It starts well - no spoilers here but the pall of dread the series has becomes a real sense of menace.

I should say to people planning to read the most recent two books at the same time not to read the blurb on the latest till you've read the one before, as it's pretty explicitly a spoiler.

[polishgenius]

Finished, ace book. Not sure where the series goes from here though...

[Abyss]

Just started THICKER'. Wow. Carey's hitting new levels.

- Abyss, enjoying.

[Abyss]

Okay, i'm done with THICKER THAN WATER and NAMING OF THE BEASTS...
SPOILERS AFTER FIRST PARA BELOW

Holy, fuck, i think Carey may have topped Butcher with this one... ok, ok, i know, i'm talking crazy talk... but to use an analogy i think i;ve used before, Butcher's Dresden books are high octane thrill rides... Carey's Castor books are slow simmer to big finish.. and the finish to these two books... i'm speechless. Honestly... these two books are just so perfectly written... even when you see a twist coming, Carey manages to throw in an extra bit you couldn't have expected. And i'm in awe of the finale of NAMING especially... it's not a massive big finish for a cast of thousands... there are no explosions, no clashing armies, no worlds at stake... just Castor and some of his supporting cast executing a plan to deal with the running sub-plot that has been building for five books... and its awesome.


SPOILERS AFTER HERE SPOILERS SPOILERS MAJOR SPOILERS FOR ALL THE CASTOR SPOILERS BOOKS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
DEMONIC SPOILERS THAT WILL SPOILERS EAT
YOUR SPOILERS SOUL SPOILERS


For five books the question has been when/how the Raffi/Asmodeus problem would be solved. It tooks Castor going back to Jenna-Jane... it took Juliet almost losing it... but wow, that was jaw dropping in part. Literally.

If you've read the book you lol'd just then, didn't you?

Carey really hit a new high this time. All his characters were in awesome form and had their moment to shine... Sue throwing down on Trudie over Juliet, Juliet in every scene she's in, Jenna-Jane practically eating scenery like an exorcistic sociopathic grandmother, Rosie finally having her moment to shine, Nicky stepping up, ... and Castor right through, doing whatever he had to... and Asmodeus in that final scene was just stunningly evil even when he faked it.

I was impressed with the end of THICKER - the entire wound-demon possessing an apartment block concept was so perfectly written i really wasn't sure NAMING could top it. SO happy to be wrong.

There's something to the scale of the finale... it's not big massive crazy fight... it's Castor, Juliet, McLennan and Pax vs. Asmodeus in a trashy old apartment... and it was just perfect. Well written, fast paced, everything going according to plan except everything that didn't and in the end the good guys take a beating but win it. Nicely done.

Honestly, Carey can just stop right here with the satisfactory happy ending. I'm good.

- Abyss, mind you, won't complain if he decides to write some more of these.

[QuickTidal]

I have a feeling I ought to look into these books. Seeing as I need some more urban fantasy fix.....hmmm...

I DO trust Abyss's opinion explicitly....perhaps I'll make a trip to the bookstore.