[Carnifex]

I'm still trying to make sense out of Redmask's death. On a re-read, I noticed how often Redmask thought of his Kechra as cold-blooded lizards, lacking emotion and thus committed to success. During most of his interactions with the Awl, Redmask emulates this- he's calculating and manipulative, using them to set up his ambushes and using their folklore and values to bring them around to his way of thinking.

During the last battle, however, Redmask gets pissed off. When he sees how badly things are going, he jumps on his horse and decides to kill his way over to the Atri-Preda, regardless of the strategic wisdom of this. He catches Sag-churok's eye, thinks again about how cold and emotionless the Kechra are, and then gets killed.

I'm wondering if that display of emotion is what got him killed. He was the Mortal Sword of the Kechra, acting out their will. While we don't know much about KCCM goals, it's a small step to assume that they supported Redmask's goal of starting the war with Letheras; they even gave him a Kell Hunter and a female to support this.

He won more than he lost, but his first "loss" at the hands of the Letherii (can't remember the place, sorry) didn't cost him KCCM support. He regrouped, thought about it, and kept on moving toward his goal. It was only after he lost his temper that they "dismissed" him from KCCM service.

Maybe emotion is fundamentally incompatible with KCCM methodology. They didn't kill him because he screwed up, they killed him because he got pissed off about it and didn't do the sensible thing and run away. His KCCM didn't stick around after killing him; they did the sensible thing and retreated, even though they could've caused huge damage to the Letherii if that had been their true goal.

Thoughts?

[Bauchelain the Evil]

It isn't completely sure why the KCCM killed Redmask but Toc thought that it wasbecausehefailed. Probably the KCCM don't like loosing(who do?) especially against "normal humans" so they killed him.

[Mentalist]

hmm
I STILL blame his failure on that copper mask in charge of the cavalry

kud13, wants an MBotF RTS, just to replay that battle...

[Estelindis]

So many of the deaths in this series are confusing or anti-climactic. I am reminded of Lorn's death in Gardens of the Moon, for instance - it just happened, unexpectedly, and then things went on. Happily, we can all enjoy composing theories as to the reasons why various characters die - but, personally, I think part of the lesson is that this world is so complex that we're never going to see all the reasons why things happen.

All the same: great observations on Redmask!

kud13;302549 said:

hmm
kud13, wants an MBotF RTS, just to replay that battle...

What an excellent idea! Now I want it too - and, once I've started wanting it, I can't un-want it... Oh, for an MBotF RTS!

[Trull's son]

It's true that many of the deaths are anti climactic. take, i believe, Pella. he was at skullcup, then joined Bordukes squad, i think. he was a mildly important character, but was dispatched in Y'gatan by an arrow to the head. or the child in RG, the boy at one of the settlements that the Kechra attack. he gets slaughtered, eventhough SE had already went to the trouble of giving him a backround story. maybe this was done to indicate the frailty of life, but i dont know.
I'm still confused about redmask, apparently he had the face of a Letherii. Yet he led the Awl and had traced his roots back to them. anyone care to enlighten me?

[Tarr]

No it introduced his sister who I think is still alive, the wolf girl.

[Jaltus]

Trull said:

It's true that many of the deaths are anti climactic. take, i believe, Pella. he was at skullcup, then joined Bordukes squad, i think. he was a mildly important character, but was dispatched in Y'gatan by an arrow to the head. or the child in RG, the boy at one of the settlements that the Kechra attack. he gets slaughtered, eventhough SE had already went to the trouble of giving him a backround story. maybe this was done to indicate the frailty of life, but i dont know.
I'm still confused about redmask, apparently he had the face of a Letherii. Yet he led the Awl and had traced his roots back to them. anyone care to enlighten me?

The going theory is that he was adopted by one of the Awl, which was the big secret that the one elder was holding over him.

[tc5998]

Hi, its my first post!

Anyway, I didn't get impression that Redmask is dead.

I know that Erikson gave us a POV scene of the character and that makes it seem like it was him riding up to the Letheri, but I think Redmask switched his mask onto someone else, then joined the Letheri contingent. I think this because Redmask was in the habit of cutting people's faces off and keeping them and in the scenes around this time the following happens:
The pull off the mask and reveal it is not an Awl under it (could still be Redmask, I could be wrong!)
SE goes out of his way to describe a Letherii covered in mud slicing Toc's face off the way Redmask did earlier in the book.
This would also explain why KCCM would kill someone who they realize is an imposter.

Why did Redmask do this? How did he get a Letherii to wear his mask and ride towards enemy lines? Why did SE give us a point of view section as if that rider was Redmask if he wasn't? I don't know... this is just an educated guess on my part.

Anyway! Thanks... this is a fun board.

[Mentalist]

not to burst your pubble or anything, but..
Redmask is supposedly Letherii, who was adopted by the Awl--there are several clues about it throughout the book
The "cutting off faces thing" was something teh LEtherii did as well--recall the Grey Swords in the beginning of the book--they were paid for it--kind of like settlers were paid for Native scalps in the colonial North America.

btw, welcome to the forum!

[Ain't_It_Just_]

Maybe Redmast, um, Redmask was just an aspiring Awl wannabe and wanted revenge on the Letherii for killing his sister.

Since when was the wolf girl (brother of Abasard) Redmask's sister? And I wonder, where is she? I think there was a part with her in it that mentioned a barghast warrior....

[Carnifex]

Yeah, that was my read on Redmask's motivation as well. He's not an Awl at all, even by adoption; he's just a fanatic who learned so much of their culture that he's more expert in it than they are.

Kind of like an anthropologist who goes native and joins the tribe he's studying...

[Hellian's Keg Lid]

There is a scene early on when the Preda is explaining to the Overseer the history behind Letur Anict and the Awl - during which she says the Awl were in the habit of kidnapping Letherii children and raising them as their own.

Later on I think Redmask has some sort of internal dialogue after strangling the elder who knew his "secret" - that he was Letherii. He justifies to himself that he is more Awl than his adopted people, essentially.

And back on topic, I think it was failure - his forces were being mulched even more than previously and he seemed not to be noticing that fact.

[Venerus]

Although, excitingly, Redmask's sister was taken hostage by Anict, in a fun reversal of culture roles. And then murdered, of course, on the way to the ransom.

[Hellian's Keg Lid]

She killed herself, rather than be returned, and presumably be the ransom cost... Fun fun.

[Fiddler]

My take on it wasn't the price of failure, but not enough rewards for success. Redmask might beat the letheri on that plain but then you have Tool and his Barghast coming quick behind them. The KCCM might not want the Imass like Kilava to know that there's a possible matron still alive there, and needed to eliminate all witnesses and loose ends before departing. In that context it isn't so much about Redmasks failure but the females survival, and thus the species survival since up until now she's the first female, living KCCM seen.

[Tarr]

Trull said:

or the child in RG, the boy at one of the settlements that the Kechra attack. he gets slaughtered, eventhough SE had already went to the trouble of giving him a backround story. maybe this was done to indicate the frailty of life, but i dont know.

Introduced his sister who he died to protect from kell hunter. she then joined the wolfs then gets found by hunter

[Trull's son]

i thought she was found by one of the barghast. thx for clearing that up, i wondered why the girl wasn't part of the barghast army when tool shows up.

[Gwynn ap Nudd]

I always thought Redmask's death was simply due to a tool having finished its purpose. Who's to say the KCCM don't have very long memories, and were just using Redmask to get the rest of the Awl killed off?

[Ain't_It_Just_]

Carnifex;304171 said:

Kind of like an anthropologist who goes native and joins the tribe he's studying...

Gasp!

Steven Erikson (born October 7, 1959) is the pseudonym of Steve Rune Lundin, a Canadian novelist, who was educated and trained as both an archaeologist and anthropologist

ZOMG! COULD THIS BE ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF SE PUTTING REAL LIFE INTO HIS BOOKS!!!!!!!!!!

[Tarr]

So he dedicated a book (MOI?) to himself?