[Venerus]

Why did it take me so long to realize that the QB/Kalam team is almost exactly like the Kel/Dancer one? Can I use this information to predict that Kalam and QB end up as gods at the end of the series, when SE kills them off so that the BB story-line can get closure?

[Optimus Prime]

There are similarities of course, but you could also say that Tehol and Bugg is a lot like Kel and Dancer in some ways.

Partnerships in general are a big theme in MBotF.

[Aptorian]

It is actually an interesting comparison. I've never really thought of them that way.

They aren't quite as ambitious, at least not yet. And Dancer of course, unlike Kalam, was a powerfull mage.

[Optimus Prime]

People often forget that about Dancer. I guess since we've never seen him directly use his magical abilities as "Dancer".

Perhaps that is why QB is so good at getting under ST's skin....they're two peas from the same pod.

[Wry]

Mage isn't really the word i'd use, but yeshe's alot more than just an asassin

[Kurt Montandon]

Aptorian;299702 said:

They aren't quite as ambitious, at least not yet. And Dancer of course, unlike Kalam, was a powerfull mage.

I don't recall this being mentioned anywhere. And my copy of NoK is not near, though ... ah, now I remember, he summoned that woman mage that Temper asked for, in Mock's. Still, he may have come upon that power very recently before that point, since I don't think there's reference to Dancer being a mage in the MBotF.

[Venerus]

Assassin with unrivaled talents that's more than he seems, allied with a mage who acts through misdirection, illusion, shadow, and being smarter than everyone else. Who am I describing?

What got me thinking was quotes like this:

Quote

She [Apsalar] wondered again at what Kalam and Quick Ben were planning. Both were formidable in their own right, yet intrinsic in their methods was staying low, beneath notice. What was obvious -- all that lay on the surface -- was invariably an illusion, a deceit. When the time came to choose sides, out in the open, they were likely to surprise everyone.
Two men, then, whom no-one could truly trust. Two men whom not even the gods could trust, for that matter.

Especially that last part. That's exactly how I think of mortal Dancer and Kel.

I wonder if SE is trying to show Kel and Dancer's story via QB and Kalam. Even down to the little things, like WJ standing in for Dassem. Or, it could be he's showing us that there's nothing new, history repeats itself. Then again, there are a few assassin-y types teaming up w/mage-y types (Korbolo and Kamist, as one example).

I dunno. It just struck me. Especially vis the ambitions thing that Apt brought up; Dancer and Kel spent a long time building up to their ambitions, and even once everyone thought they knew what they were seeking, it turned out to be a kind of extended feint all along. Even their current positions seem to be ones of expedience, not necessarily the final word. In a sense, they're always laying low, or at least lower than their intended goal. I've started to think that Kel and QB are the same way, just with a closer lens than what we can see of Cot and ST.

[Silencer]

Good idea, although I think it's been sort of assumed a little over the years.

And Dancer is slightly mage-like, whereas Kalam seems almost anti-magic, not saying that this is a difference between the pairs, just agreeing that Dancer is mage-y.

I like the idea, and can see the two ascending, although Kalam is currently indisposed. I get the feeling that one potential reason for ST's stocking of the Azath with assassins is more of a claim thing than a plan thing. (Just tossing out that bit of off-topic discussion).

[Kimloc]

Silencer;299882 said:

Good idea, although I think it's been sort of assumed a little over the years.

And Dancer is slightly mage-like, whereas Kalam seems almost anti-magic, not saying that this is a difference between the pairs, just agreeing that Dancer is mage-y.

I like the idea, and can see the two ascending, although Kalam is currently indisposed. I get the feeling that one potential reason for ST's stocking of the Azath with assassins is more of a claim thing than a plan thing. (Just tossing out that bit of off-topic discussion).

He hasn't really even stocked any Azath other than the Deadhouse. Vorcan and Rallick weren't due to ST's interference or planning. Maybe Dassem's daughter was but is she even an assassin.

I think ST is just being opportunistic when he speaks of his "collection." As Silencer says, he never schemed for assassins to lie comatose inside any Azath.

[Optimus Prime]

I keep going back to the idea that Dancer/Cot has been around longer than we think.....it's just too tasty of a theory to immediately dismiss.

I hope SE does some prequels about Kel and Dancer and how they rose to power....before NoK takes place.

[Silencer]

Yeah. I agree to a certain extent there Xander. Although unless we are told it's totally unfounded.

I think that a book/series like that would be more of ICE's area.

[Optimus Prime]

Silencer;299910 said:

Yeah. I agree to a certain extent there Xander. Although unless we are told it's totally unfounded.

I think that a book/series like that would be more of ICE's area.

True. Yeah ICE or SE, I almost consider them the right and left parts of the same brain

[Sinisdar Toste]

only thing really different about kal and QB, and ST and cot is their goals,

QB wants to counter the CG's influence somehow, and ST wants to map the azath.

i'm not sure if dancer was a mage, but he would have had mad ascended god skills which is good enough. it could happen to kalam

[Mentalist]

Xander;299907 said:

I keep going back to the idea that Dancer/Cot has been around longer than we think.....it's just too tasty of a theory to immediately dismiss.

I hope SE does some prequels about Kel and Dancer and how they rose to power....before NoK takes place.

I tend to agree with this, at least as far as Dancer goes--somehting about him being involved in the Chainings makes me think that...

[Optimus Prime]

Of course it could be that there was a god named Cotillion and Dancer simply took his place when he ascended....hmmm

[Aptorian]

Dancer has to have been a powerfull magic user. It was him, not Shadowthrone, who led the Shadowcult. And no matter what, we see him use magic in NoK, to hide and reveal the Bridgeburner Temper wanted.

[Optimus Prime]

That's the only incident we have of him using magic as Dancer, right?


Obviously he was a power in his own right. He is in no way subordinate to ST, and may not have been while a mortal. They probably had to "keep up appearances" while Kel was Emperor, but were probably always equals.

A partnership like theirs couldn't work otherwise.

[Silencer]

Well that's the clue isn't it?
They were partners. Equal shares of planning and implementation. They are always referred to by people in the know as equivalent - "Kellanved and Dancer never wanted such an unwieldy entity as an empire" and suchlike.

We can't deny that part.
I definitely think that Cot is a reasonable mage. Maybe not as powerful as Kellanved when mortal, but still a good mage. Now....ascendants seem to have (in general) improved magic skills. Therefore he is likely to be a power in his own right in regards to magic. Kellanved now acts more as a webspinner (rather like he did as emperor) rather than as a magic powerhouse.

[Ain't_It_Just_]

QB and Kalam are like kellanved and Dancer.... but more gangsta and/or badass.

It's kinda ironic that Kalam, Quick's partner and friend is trapped in an Azath, the same place that the OTHER partnership explored. Funny old Burn.

[Sindriss]

You have to remember the power draws power core in the books. Kell probably are a magic powerhouse and could wreak some havoc once he goes all out, however there are no need for that as long as he can use other characters to do the hard work.
No need for him to risk himself when it is not needed. But I suspect that in the last few books we get to see what the emperor really is capable of.