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Man, ive only got a quick question that has been irking me for the past couple weeks.
im not finished with bonehunters yet, but ive never seen anyone/thing that scares Kalam/QB/Fid s***less. except maybe the corpses of the Deragoth. lol.
is it really just that she was sanctified in the name of hood when she was a baby that makes them so uneasy? i realize she was behind Y'Ghatan, and she was Whiskeyjack's sister, so what is her beef with the empire? im guessing there is more to the story, and if so, whereabouts are the details picked up on?
Dunsparrow...
#2
Aptorian 
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Posted 25 April 2008 - 05:54 PM
She is mentioned briefly in MoI. WJ mentions her being a little bitch as a kid and her running off to marry a king.
The rest as far as I remember, comes from BH.
I think she works for herself, we'll probably learn more in TtH or DoD, but I don't think she cares much about 7C or the Malazan Empire.
When does Kalam QB and Fid even see her? I don't remember them coming direct contact with her.
The rest as far as I remember, comes from BH.
I think she works for herself, we'll probably learn more in TtH or DoD, but I don't think she cares much about 7C or the Malazan Empire.
When does Kalam QB and Fid even see her? I don't remember them coming direct contact with her.
#3
SiriusL
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Posted 25 April 2008 - 06:01 PM
I can only recall them hearing about her from Corabb, not actually seeing or meeting her. She was with Leoman in every scene she was in.
I thought they were just astonished that WJ's sister was involved at all, let alone sleeping with the enemy.
**Edit**
Please disregard the little exclamation point sign...'twas an accident.
I thought they were just astonished that WJ's sister was involved at all, let alone sleeping with the enemy.
**Edit**
Please disregard the little exclamation point sign...'twas an accident.
#5
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Posted 25 April 2008 - 06:10 PM
yeah, they just overhear that she was with leoman from corrab
i understand why they are uneasy, she of course IS whiskeyjack's sister, but as i remember, Fid said that he not only remembers her but "aye. i remember her, even bounced her on my knee one time" or something along those lines.
i hope they go into the history of WJ and Fid. i never knew that they were old friends (as in pre-bridgeburner) untill this passage.
i understand why they are uneasy, she of course IS whiskeyjack's sister, but as i remember, Fid said that he not only remembers her but "aye. i remember her, even bounced her on my knee one time" or something along those lines.
i hope they go into the history of WJ and Fid. i never knew that they were old friends (as in pre-bridgeburner) untill this passage.
#7
Salt-Man Z
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Posted 25 April 2008 - 06:24 PM
Does anyone else find these frequent appearances of major characters' relatives a bit, well, odd?
Torvald Nom in HoC
What's-his-name Mekhar in BH
Dunsparrow in BH
Quick Ben's sister in BH
And let's not forget how the entire House Paran became major players starting in DG. I'm not complaining, not really, I mean the stories are so good, but...it just bugs me a little, sometimes.
Torvald Nom in HoC
What's-his-name Mekhar in BH
Dunsparrow in BH
Quick Ben's sister in BH
And let's not forget how the entire House Paran became major players starting in DG. I'm not complaining, not really, I mean the stories are so good, but...it just bugs me a little, sometimes.
"Here is light. You will say that it is not a living entity, but you miss the point that it is more, not less. Without occupying space, it fills the universe. It nourishes everything, yet itself feeds upon destruction. We claim to control it, but does it not perhaps cultivate us as a source of food? May it not be that all wood grows so that it can be set ablaze, and that men and women are born to kindle fires?"
―Gene Wolfe, The Citadel of the Autarch
―Gene Wolfe, The Citadel of the Autarch
#8
Mentalist
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Posted 25 April 2008 - 06:35 PM
well, one more point to SE's sense of realism--the world is a small place. think of it as the Malaz "6 degrees of separation"-type dealie...
The problem with the gene pool is that there's no lifeguard
THE CONTESTtm WINNER--чемпіон самоконтролю
THE CONTESTtm WINNER--чемпіон самоконтролю
Jump Around, on 23 October 2011 - 11:04 AM, said:
And I want to state that Ment has out-weaseled me by far in this game.
#9
Moreo
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Posted 25 April 2008 - 07:58 PM
by that token, you also must remember that Erikson's world is a large place, with millions of people and thousands of incredibly powerful beings.
i definitely know what you are saying though, in another thread i remarked that one of the things that bothered me about MoI was that the Pannion Domin were introduced only in that book, yet were it was this incredibly massive army that was steamrolling everything in its path, and it almost seemed like on a whim the empress decided to have them delt with.
i definitely know what you are saying though, in another thread i remarked that one of the things that bothered me about MoI was that the Pannion Domin were introduced only in that book, yet were it was this incredibly massive army that was steamrolling everything in its path, and it almost seemed like on a whim the empress decided to have them delt with.
#10
SiriusL
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Posted 25 April 2008 - 08:35 PM
The Pannion is definitely mentioned in GotM, and the Domin is on the map. It's been a while since I reread it, but I believe the campaign is introduced at the end of GotM.
#11
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Posted 25 April 2008 - 10:48 PM
Since it's been mentioned a few times already, here's the conversation amongst some of the Bridgeburners regarding Dunsparrow.
The following quote is later in the book, spoken by the Queen of Dreams (you may want to skip it if you haven't got that far Moreo, although it's not super spoilery).
The following quote is later in the book, spoken by the Queen of Dreams (you may want to skip it if you haven't got that far Moreo, although it's not super spoilery).
Quote
Fiddler barely heard him. 'Dunsparrow,' he repeated.
'Do you know the hag? The witch? The seductress and corrupter?'
Gods, I once tossed her on my knee. He realized of a sudden that he was clawing a hand through the remnants of his singed, snarled hair, unmindful of the snags, indifferent to the tears that started from his eyes. The girl squirmed. He stared over at Corabb, unseeing, then hurried ahead, feeling dizzy, feeling... appalled. Dunsparrow... she'd be in her twenties now. Middle twenties, I suppose. What was she doing in Y'Ghatan?
He pushed between Kalam and Quick Ben, startling both men.
'Fid?'
'Tug Hood's snake till he shrieks,' the sapper said. 'Drown the damned Queen of Dreams in her own damned pool. Friends, you won't believe who went with Leoman into that warren. You won't believe who shared Leoman's bed in Y'Ghatan. No, you won't believe anything I say.'
'Abyss take you, Fid,' Kalam said in exasperation, 'what are you talking about?' 'Dunsparrow. That's who's at Leoman's side right now.
Dunsparrow. Whiskeyjack's little sister and I don't know — I don't know anything — what to think, only I want to scream and I don't know why even there, no, I don't know anything any more. Gods, Quick — Kalam — what does it mean? What does any of it mean?'
'Calm down,' Quick Ben said, but his voice was strangely high, tight. 'For us, for us, I mean, it doesn't necessarily mean anything. It's a damned coincidence and even if it isn't, it's not like it means anything, not really. It's just... Peculiar, that's all. We knew she was a stubborn, wild little demon, we knew that, even then — and you knew her better than us, me and Kalam, we only met her once, in Malaz City. But you, you were like her uncle, which means you got some explaining to do!'
Fiddler stared at the man, at his wide eyes. 'Me? You've lost your mind, Quick. Listen to you! Blaming me, for her! Wasn't nothing to do with me!'
'Stop it, both of you,' Kalam said. 'You're frightening the soldiers behind us. Look, we're all too nervous right now, about all sorts of things, to be able to make sense of any of this, assuming there's any sense to be made. People choose their own lives, what they do, where they end up, it don't mean some god's playing around. So, Whiskeyjack's little sister is now Leoman's lover, and they're both hiding out in the Queen of Dreams' warren. All right, better that than crumbling bones in the ashes of Y'Ghatan, right? Well?'
'Maybe, maybe not,' Fiddler said.
'What in Hood's name does that mean?' Kalam demanded.
Fiddler drew a deep, shaky breath. 'We must have told you, it's not like it was secret or anything, and we always used it as an excuse, to explain her, the way she was and all that. Never so she could hear, of course, and we said it to take its power away—'
'Fiddler!'
The sapper winced at Kalam's outburst. 'Now who's frightening everyone—'
'You are! And never mind everyone else — you're frightening me, damn you!'
'All right. She was born to a dead woman —Whiskeyjack's stepmother, she died that morning, and the baby — Dunsparrow — well, she was long in coming out, she should have died inside, if you know what I mean. That's why the town elders gave her up to the temple, to Hood's own. The father was already dead, killed outside Quon, and Whiskeyjack, well, he was finishing his prenticeship. We was young then. So me and him, we had to break in and steal her back, but she'd already been consecrated, blessed in Hood's name — so we took its power away by talking about it, ha ha, making light and all that, and she grew up normal enough. More or less. Sort of...' He trailed away, refused to meet the two sets of staring eyes, then scratched at his singed face. 'We need us a Deck of Dragons, I think...'
'Do you know the hag? The witch? The seductress and corrupter?'
Gods, I once tossed her on my knee. He realized of a sudden that he was clawing a hand through the remnants of his singed, snarled hair, unmindful of the snags, indifferent to the tears that started from his eyes. The girl squirmed. He stared over at Corabb, unseeing, then hurried ahead, feeling dizzy, feeling... appalled. Dunsparrow... she'd be in her twenties now. Middle twenties, I suppose. What was she doing in Y'Ghatan?
He pushed between Kalam and Quick Ben, startling both men.
'Fid?'
'Tug Hood's snake till he shrieks,' the sapper said. 'Drown the damned Queen of Dreams in her own damned pool. Friends, you won't believe who went with Leoman into that warren. You won't believe who shared Leoman's bed in Y'Ghatan. No, you won't believe anything I say.'
'Abyss take you, Fid,' Kalam said in exasperation, 'what are you talking about?' 'Dunsparrow. That's who's at Leoman's side right now.
Dunsparrow. Whiskeyjack's little sister and I don't know — I don't know anything — what to think, only I want to scream and I don't know why even there, no, I don't know anything any more. Gods, Quick — Kalam — what does it mean? What does any of it mean?'
'Calm down,' Quick Ben said, but his voice was strangely high, tight. 'For us, for us, I mean, it doesn't necessarily mean anything. It's a damned coincidence and even if it isn't, it's not like it means anything, not really. It's just... Peculiar, that's all. We knew she was a stubborn, wild little demon, we knew that, even then — and you knew her better than us, me and Kalam, we only met her once, in Malaz City. But you, you were like her uncle, which means you got some explaining to do!'
Fiddler stared at the man, at his wide eyes. 'Me? You've lost your mind, Quick. Listen to you! Blaming me, for her! Wasn't nothing to do with me!'
'Stop it, both of you,' Kalam said. 'You're frightening the soldiers behind us. Look, we're all too nervous right now, about all sorts of things, to be able to make sense of any of this, assuming there's any sense to be made. People choose their own lives, what they do, where they end up, it don't mean some god's playing around. So, Whiskeyjack's little sister is now Leoman's lover, and they're both hiding out in the Queen of Dreams' warren. All right, better that than crumbling bones in the ashes of Y'Ghatan, right? Well?'
'Maybe, maybe not,' Fiddler said.
'What in Hood's name does that mean?' Kalam demanded.
Fiddler drew a deep, shaky breath. 'We must have told you, it's not like it was secret or anything, and we always used it as an excuse, to explain her, the way she was and all that. Never so she could hear, of course, and we said it to take its power away—'
'Fiddler!'
The sapper winced at Kalam's outburst. 'Now who's frightening everyone—'
'You are! And never mind everyone else — you're frightening me, damn you!'
'All right. She was born to a dead woman —Whiskeyjack's stepmother, she died that morning, and the baby — Dunsparrow — well, she was long in coming out, she should have died inside, if you know what I mean. That's why the town elders gave her up to the temple, to Hood's own. The father was already dead, killed outside Quon, and Whiskeyjack, well, he was finishing his prenticeship. We was young then. So me and him, we had to break in and steal her back, but she'd already been consecrated, blessed in Hood's name — so we took its power away by talking about it, ha ha, making light and all that, and she grew up normal enough. More or less. Sort of...' He trailed away, refused to meet the two sets of staring eyes, then scratched at his singed face. 'We need us a Deck of Dragons, I think...'
Quote
'Chosen by Oponn,' the Queen of Dreams said. 'Beloved of the Lady. His presence would have been useful...' A faint frown, then a sigh, and still she would not look up as she said, 'In his stead, I must countenance a mortal upon whom yet another god has cast an eye. To what end, I wonder? Will this god finally use her? In the manner that all gods do?' She frowned, then said, 'I do not refute this... alliance. I trust Hood understands this well enough. Even so, I see something unexpected stirring... in the depths of these waters. Dunsparrow, did you know you were marked? No, I gather you did not — you were but newborn when sanctified, after all. And then stolen away, from the temple, by your brother. Hood never forgave him for that, and took in the end a most satisfying vengeance, ever turning away a healer's touch when nothing else was needed, when that touch could have changed the world, could have shattered an age-old curse.' She paused for a moment, still staring down into the pool. 'I believe Hood now regrets his decision — his lack of humility stings him yet again. Dunsparrow, with you, I suspect, he may seek restitution...'
#12
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Posted 26 April 2008 - 08:45 PM
Salt-Man Z;295089 said:
And let's not forget how the entire House Paran became major players starting in DG. I'm not complaining, not really, I mean the stories are so good, but...it just bugs me a little, sometimes.
I'm sure i read somewhere that the original synopsis of the series was that it was to be told through the eyes of the three paran siblings
Was on an interview with SE that was kicked around the old forum somewhere, not sure if it's on the current one.
On a more general note, given that SE seems to be fond of strong genetic groupings (as in magically strong parent = magically strong kids, the three Seguleh brothers in MOI, etc) combined with the fact that power ALWAYS draws power, members of the same family cropping up when things get interesting isn't so much of a stretch.
meh. Link was dead :(
#13
Aptorian
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Posted 26 April 2008 - 08:51 PM
The seguleh weren't brothers, what have you been smoking coco?
Dunsparrow was set up as an ambitious youngster already in MoI so I thought it was fine she popped up. I was more surprised that Quick Bens sister suddenly shows up out of the blue... that was a weird moment.
Dunsparrow was set up as an ambitious youngster already in MoI so I thought it was fine she popped up. I was more surprised that Quick Bens sister suddenly shows up out of the blue... that was a weird moment.
#14
Coco with marshmallows
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Posted 26 April 2008 - 08:59 PM
my MOI is on loan, but i'm sure that not long after Tool and Toc first meet them, lady Envy describes them as brothers. could someone get me a quote?
meh. Link was dead :(
#17
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Posted 26 April 2008 - 09:28 PM
Moreo;295082 said:
yeah, they just overhear that she was with leoman from corrab
i understand why they are uneasy, she of course IS whiskeyjack's sister, but as i remember, Fid said that he not only remembers her but "aye. i remember her, even bounced her on my knee one time" or something along those lines.
i hope they go into the history of WJ and Fid. i never knew that they were old friends (as in pre-bridgeburner) untill this passage.
i understand why they are uneasy, she of course IS whiskeyjack's sister, but as i remember, Fid said that he not only remembers her but "aye. i remember her, even bounced her on my knee one time" or something along those lines.
i hope they go into the history of WJ and Fid. i never knew that they were old friends (as in pre-bridgeburner) untill this passage.
Fiddler was WJ's mason apprentice IIRC but I don't have the quote.
#18
Aptorian
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Posted 26 April 2008 - 09:31 PM
Ammanas;295572 said:
Fiddler was WJ's mason apprentice IIRC but I don't have the quote.
Does such a quote actually exist? I remember a lot of specualtion but I don't think anyone has ever figured out what WJ and Fids connection is. After all in WJs own account of the raraku adventure, he doesn't seem to know Fid yet.
That is of course a whole other topic which numerous threads have tried to solve.
#19
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Posted 26 April 2008 - 10:49 PM
What a beefy thread!
When WJ and co. talk to Dujek via the K'Chain Che'malle arm-bones thingy at the end of the novel, Dujek says they're getting ready to parley with Brood and take on an even bigger foe. Kalam replies with "The Pannion Domin! So the Seer has begun his holy war!" or something like that.
Right. I think you're thinking of Fiddler and WJ's conversation about WJ retiring from soldiering. I think it's in MoI. WJ says he was a mason's apprentice before a soldier and would like to go back to it, wherein Fiddler tells him he's too old, etc. I'm 99.999999999% positive there is no mention of Fiddler being WJ's apprentice as WJ was never a fully fledged mason himself.
Indeed. Most people are in one of three camps.
Camp A) WJ was behaving super-professional in Raraku and that is why he seemed not to know Fiddler, when in truth they go way back. WJ, being new to command was trying to hide this because he wanted to seem professional or avoid Fiddler getting special attention or whatever.
Camp
WJ's story about Raraku is untrue. Whether because it's a timeline error or WJ was trying to deceive Rake or what-have-you, the Raraku story from MoI is just wrong and WJ already knew Fiddler.
Camp C - which happens to be my view) Fiddler and WJ did not know each other before Raraku. They bonded in the time after the Raraku story, and the events with Dunsparrow - breaking her out of Hood's temple, bouncing her on a knee - were done when WJ and his soldiers were on leave in Malaz City, possibly around the same time they were there in the GotM prologue.
siriusL said:
The Pannion is definitely mentioned in GotM, and the Domin is on the map. It's been a while since I reread it, but I believe the campaign is introduced at the end of GotM.
When WJ and co. talk to Dujek via the K'Chain Che'malle arm-bones thingy at the end of the novel, Dujek says they're getting ready to parley with Brood and take on an even bigger foe. Kalam replies with "The Pannion Domin! So the Seer has begun his holy war!" or something like that.
Ammanas said:
Fiddler was WJ's mason apprentice IIRC but I don't have the quote.
Right. I think you're thinking of Fiddler and WJ's conversation about WJ retiring from soldiering. I think it's in MoI. WJ says he was a mason's apprentice before a soldier and would like to go back to it, wherein Fiddler tells him he's too old, etc. I'm 99.999999999% positive there is no mention of Fiddler being WJ's apprentice as WJ was never a fully fledged mason himself.
moreo said:
i understand why they are uneasy, she of course IS whiskeyjack's sister, but as i remember, Fid said that he not only remembers her but "aye. i remember her, even bounced her on my knee one time" or something along those lines.
i hope they go into the history of WJ and Fid. i never knew that they were old friends (as in pre-bridgeburner) untill this passage.
i hope they go into the history of WJ and Fid. i never knew that they were old friends (as in pre-bridgeburner) untill this passage.
Apt said:
Yeah, apparently Fid helped save Dunsparrow from Hoods temple. (This by the way made her a prime candidate for the controversiel "Hood wants a wife" theory)
Apt said:
Does such a quote actually exist? I remember a lot of specualtion but I don't think anyone has ever figured out what WJ and Fids connection is. After all in WJs own account of the raraku adventure, he doesn't seem to know Fid yet.
That is of course a whole other topic which numerous threads have tried to solve.
That is of course a whole other topic which numerous threads have tried to solve.
Indeed. Most people are in one of three camps.
Camp A) WJ was behaving super-professional in Raraku and that is why he seemed not to know Fiddler, when in truth they go way back. WJ, being new to command was trying to hide this because he wanted to seem professional or avoid Fiddler getting special attention or whatever.
Camp
WJ's story about Raraku is untrue. Whether because it's a timeline error or WJ was trying to deceive Rake or what-have-you, the Raraku story from MoI is just wrong and WJ already knew Fiddler.Camp C - which happens to be my view) Fiddler and WJ did not know each other before Raraku. They bonded in the time after the Raraku story, and the events with Dunsparrow - breaking her out of Hood's temple, bouncing her on a knee - were done when WJ and his soldiers were on leave in Malaz City, possibly around the same time they were there in the GotM prologue.
worrywort, on 14 September 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:
I kinda love it when D'rek unleashes her nerd wrath, as I knew she would here. Sorry innocent bystanders, but someone's gotta be the kindling.
#20
Ammanas
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Posted 26 April 2008 - 11:13 PM
A said:
What a beefy thread!
Right. I think you're thinking of Fiddler and WJ's conversation about WJ retiring from soldiering. I think it's in MoI. WJ says he was a mason's apprentice before a soldier and would like to go back to it, wherein Fiddler tells him he's too old, etc. I'm 99.999999999% positive there is no mention of Fiddler being WJ's apprentice as WJ was never a fully fledged mason himself.
Indeed. Most people are in one of three camps.
Camp A) WJ was behaving super-professional in Raraku and that is why he seemed not to know Fiddler, when in truth they go way back. WJ, being new to command was trying to hide this because he wanted to seem professional or avoid Fiddler getting special attention or whatever.
Camp WJ's story about Raraku is untrue. Whether because it's a timeline error or WJ was trying to deceive Rake or what-have-you, the Raraku story from MoI is just wrong and WJ already knew Fiddler.
Camp C - which happens to be my view) Fiddler and WJ did not know each other before Raraku. They bonded in the time after the Raraku story, and the events with Dunsparrow - breaking her out of Hood's temple, bouncing her on a knee - were done when WJ and his soldiers were on leave in Malaz City, possibly around the same time they were there in the GotM prologue.
Right. I think you're thinking of Fiddler and WJ's conversation about WJ retiring from soldiering. I think it's in MoI. WJ says he was a mason's apprentice before a soldier and would like to go back to it, wherein Fiddler tells him he's too old, etc. I'm 99.999999999% positive there is no mention of Fiddler being WJ's apprentice as WJ was never a fully fledged mason himself.
Indeed. Most people are in one of three camps.
Camp A) WJ was behaving super-professional in Raraku and that is why he seemed not to know Fiddler, when in truth they go way back. WJ, being new to command was trying to hide this because he wanted to seem professional or avoid Fiddler getting special attention or whatever.
Camp
WJ's story about Raraku is untrue. Whether because it's a timeline error or WJ was trying to deceive Rake or what-have-you, the Raraku story from MoI is just wrong and WJ already knew Fiddler.Camp C - which happens to be my view) Fiddler and WJ did not know each other before Raraku. They bonded in the time after the Raraku story, and the events with Dunsparrow - breaking her out of Hood's temple, bouncing her on a knee - were done when WJ and his soldiers were on leave in Malaz City, possibly around the same time they were there in the GotM prologue.
I'll look for the quote to back up my assertion. I remember thinking at the time, Ah, that's why they ended up in the army; running from Hood and/or his priests.
If I can't find the quote, I'll let you know.
