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Hi,
Just finished DeadHouse Gates. I have to say, that I have problem with understanding of the book. Am I the only one?
On the low level, many times, I didnt understand what the characters are really talking about. Like really I didnt understand many dialogues (I'm the type of the reader who must really understand everything).
On the high level, please help me understand the main characters goals:
Fiddler. His quest was really to find an Azath a try to get from there to Azath in Malaz city? That was the easiest way how to get there?
Apsalar. Why did she followed Fiddler to the desert after they told her that they are not going to Itko Kan anymore?
Priest. What the priest working for Shadowthrone wanted? He wanted to prevent one of the Solestolens to ascende? Thats it? Why?
If Icarium poses such a threat - why they just guarding him instead of killing him? Its not possible to cut his head off when he sleeps?
Why Shadowthrone accept to save 1800 children?
Thank you for shading some light into this.
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Help me to understand Confused
#2
D'rek 
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Posted 23 May 2017 - 02:20 PM
kpapik, on 23 May 2017 - 01:55 PM, said:
Fiddler. His quest was really to find an Azath a try to get from there to Azath in Malaz city? That was the easiest way how to get there?
So, three things here.
1 - The original plan was for Fiddler and Kalam to travel together.
2 - The idea of travelling by Azath came originally from Quick Ben, back before they split on Genebackis (i.e. something like 6 months ago).
3 - Kalam (and by extension Fiddler)'s secret plan was to confront (and possibly assassinate) the Empress in Unta.
So with those original intentions in mind, the initial plan makes more sense - Fiddler and Kalam travel through a (much more peaceful) Seven Cities to Tremorlor, which gives them a very stealthy way of reaching Malaz City and Unta so they can get the drop on Laseen, whereas arriving by boat would be far more likely to be noticed.
Even then, the Azath idea seems to have been only one travel option given by Quick Ben, and not necessarily the first option.
So things get pretty muddled after Kalam splits off from the group and the Whirlwind Rebellion rises up. Fiddler decides that taking the Azath route might be safer than trying to cross back to Ehrlitan or to another port city and taking a boat with rebels rampaging across the countryside, and it seems neither he nor Kalam realized at the time that the Path of Hands would affect their travels or arriving at the Azath itself.
kpapik, on 23 May 2017 - 01:55 PM, said:
Apsalar. Why did she followed Fiddler to the desert after they told her that they are not going to Itko Kan anymore?
Getting to Itko Kan is still much closer and easier from Malaz City (or anywhere else on the Quon Tali subcontinent) than crossing a rebel-infested Seven Cities to the coast and trying to find a boat with just herself and Crokus. Even if Fiddler and Kalam were ultimately headed to Unta to confront the Empress, it was best for Apsalar and Crokus to travel with them most of the way and then separate just for the last leg to find their own way to Itko Kan.
kpapik, on 23 May 2017 - 01:55 PM, said:
What the priest working for Shadowthrone wanted? He wanted to prevent one of the Solestolens to ascende? Thats it? Why?
IIRC, the Beast Ritual that created the first wave of Soletaken and D'ivers from the (Human) First Empire was performed using a fragment of Kurald Emurlahn - the shattered warren of elder Shadow. The modern Shadow warren is still closely related to Kurald Emurlahn, so the Path of Hands that the Soletaken/D'ivers were following actually leads to a gate in Iskaral Pust's temple and that gate in turn leads into Shadow. Shadowthrone doesn't want a hundred powerful Soletaken/D'ivers rampaging through his Shadow warren, so he had Iskaral Pust obscure the gate to Shadow and lead the shapeshifters to Tremorlor instead (though it is worth noting that Olar Ethil showed up to stop the shapeshifters if any of them had made it to the gate, anyways).
As for Iskaral himself, he doesn't need any more motivation than because his god told him to. He's a priest, after all.
kpapik, on 23 May 2017 - 01:55 PM, said:
If Icarium poses such a threat - why they just guarding him instead of killing him? Its not possible to cut his head off when he sleeps?
Presumably they have tried such tactics before.
kpapik, on 23 May 2017 - 01:55 PM, said:
Why Shadowthrone accept to save 1800 children?
When the Matriarch of all your Aptorians tells you you're adopting 1800 children you don't get a say in the matter. Shadowthrone made it quite clear that he wasn't happy about accepting them, but he needs Apt and her brood's cooperation more.
Or maybe he's really just a big ol' softie!
worrywort, on 14 September 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:
I kinda love it when D'rek unleashes her nerd wrath, as I knew she would here. Sorry innocent bystanders, but someone's gotta be the kindling.
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kpapik
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Posted 24 May 2017 - 04:52 AM
thanks for the reply.
the only thing which still sounds reallly weird to me that Fiddler instead of taking a boat to Malaz is looking for dangerous and maybe not existing Tremorlor hoping that maybe he will be able to travel to the Malaz city. Yes - its more stealthy, but ....really?
the only thing which still sounds reallly weird to me that Fiddler instead of taking a boat to Malaz is looking for dangerous and maybe not existing Tremorlor hoping that maybe he will be able to travel to the Malaz city. Yes - its more stealthy, but ....really?
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Posted 24 May 2017 - 06:38 AM
Tremorlor was never their first choice. But after the rebellion started Fiddler thought it would be their best chance as travelling the whole way to the south coast of Seven Cities without getting caught and killed as Malazans would be unrealistic.
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Kalam&Quick
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Posted 02 October 2017 - 03:25 AM
kpapik, on 23 May 2017 - 01:55 PM, said:
Hi,
Just finished DeadHouse Gates. I have to say, that I have problem with understanding of the book. Am I the only one?
On the low level, many times, I didnt understand what the characters are really talking about. Like really I didnt understand many dialogues (I'm the type of the reader who must really understand everything).
On the high level, please help me understand the main characters goals:
Fiddler. His quest was really to find an Azath a try to get from there to Azath in Malaz city? That was the easiest way how to get there?
his goal was the same as Kalams. they were going back to kill the empress. they originally planned to go over land BUT the uprising provided many problems, so they decided to split up. With kalam being a TRUE native, he could easily cross the entire continent on foot with little issue(atleast until he saved the malazan refugees he found)
Fiddler - with crokus and apsalar, would Not be able to cross the whole continent by foot, even with kalam there, so they needed a second option. raraku being on the north western section of the continent meant that it would be easier to B line it there, and find tremelor(which was always the Plan B Quick ben gave them) so thats where fiddler went to take the kids.
Apsalar. Why did she followed Fiddler to the desert after they told her that they are not going to Itko Kan anymore?
Because, they were still going to itko khan. they just couldnt go STRAIGHT to itko khan.
1. there were FEW ships going form genebackis to Quon Tali. the only ones that were, were controlled by the malazan empire, were on the look out for renegade bridge burners AND for a certain god-touched little girl. and the only ships were usually the ones carrying soldiers and supplies, so they couldnt exactly hitch a ride.
where as genebackis and 7C were in trade with each other, so it was easy to get a Ship from one to the other, while not being under such a watchful eye of the empress, because, after all, who would WANT to go to 7c, especially during a rebellion?
Priest. What the priest working for Shadowthrone wanted? He wanted to prevent one of the Solestolens to ascende? Thats it? Why?
for many reasons.
1. most sole taken and divers are crazy. they get this ferral fever of sorts thats basicly corrupts them. even the best of them have it on some level. the Few who have been able to control it are usually the strongest, and ones who find some way to ascend anyway. basicly you either learn to control it(IE: guys like Rake and the Demon Lords, and many other characters) or you dont and spend your days being slightly insane(gryllen, and that bear)
2. sole taken and divers are already strong. strong enough to make the god worry as it is, give one a clear path to ascendency, and they are one step closer to become a full blown god.
because its one thing to have a crazy mortal as a ruler, and to have a crazy shapeshifter running around, but like stated in the book, can you imagine a crazy shapeshifter, who's immortal, as the ruler of an empire? it would be VERY hard to stop (IE: think of a crazy power-hungry version of Rake. crazy and nigh-unkillable)
If Icarium poses such a threat - why they just guarding him instead of killing him? Its not possible to cut his head off when he sleeps?
its not that simple.
1. he has mappo. mappo obviously wouldn't let that happen.
2. icarium is a jaghut, and they are EXTREMELY hard to kill IE: why Reast had to be improsuioned, why the iMAss has to put rocks over the fallen jag hut's bodies.
3. if they tried it, he could potentially Rage out and kill them.
4. we dont know at this point, but hints were dropped that icarium is a ascendant. the whole talk of Obelisk being active, and how it falls inline with icarium being back on the continent. if he's an ascendant, then simply cutting his head off wont exactly work. again, think Reast, they literally destroyed his body, and he found a new one. and its arguable that Icarium is much stronger then Reast.
Why Shadowthrone accept to save 1800 children?
there are MANY reasons. but to not add spoilers, simply this.
imagine what you can do with 1800 kids? think about it, right now its basicaly him and dancer/cotillion alone with an entire warren/realm to themselves. and they are gods now, so they will be around for a LONG time.
dancer was one of the best Assassins to ever live and kellanved was said to be a powerful sorcerer right? why not keep them and train these kids to follow their every bidding? imagine having a mini army. sure right not they are kids, but they will grow quickly(atleast quickly to them as Gods who, even while mortal, lived 100+ years, whats another 10 years to them?
within 10 years they can have a skilled, trained army of almost 2,000 assassins and shadow mages. all being led by a Crazy God and immortal assassin patron
not only that, but its been stated that a gods power is derived by their followers, so even with 1800, thats 1800 more then he has before, thus the more people he gets to follow him wether directly as an army, or indirectly as priests and such, the more power he will ultimately have eventually.
Thank you for shading some light into this.
Just finished DeadHouse Gates. I have to say, that I have problem with understanding of the book. Am I the only one?
On the low level, many times, I didnt understand what the characters are really talking about. Like really I didnt understand many dialogues (I'm the type of the reader who must really understand everything).
On the high level, please help me understand the main characters goals:
Fiddler. His quest was really to find an Azath a try to get from there to Azath in Malaz city? That was the easiest way how to get there?
his goal was the same as Kalams. they were going back to kill the empress. they originally planned to go over land BUT the uprising provided many problems, so they decided to split up. With kalam being a TRUE native, he could easily cross the entire continent on foot with little issue(atleast until he saved the malazan refugees he found)
Fiddler - with crokus and apsalar, would Not be able to cross the whole continent by foot, even with kalam there, so they needed a second option. raraku being on the north western section of the continent meant that it would be easier to B line it there, and find tremelor(which was always the Plan B Quick ben gave them) so thats where fiddler went to take the kids.
Apsalar. Why did she followed Fiddler to the desert after they told her that they are not going to Itko Kan anymore?
Because, they were still going to itko khan. they just couldnt go STRAIGHT to itko khan.
1. there were FEW ships going form genebackis to Quon Tali. the only ones that were, were controlled by the malazan empire, were on the look out for renegade bridge burners AND for a certain god-touched little girl. and the only ships were usually the ones carrying soldiers and supplies, so they couldnt exactly hitch a ride.
where as genebackis and 7C were in trade with each other, so it was easy to get a Ship from one to the other, while not being under such a watchful eye of the empress, because, after all, who would WANT to go to 7c, especially during a rebellion?
Priest. What the priest working for Shadowthrone wanted? He wanted to prevent one of the Solestolens to ascende? Thats it? Why?
for many reasons.
1. most sole taken and divers are crazy. they get this ferral fever of sorts thats basicly corrupts them. even the best of them have it on some level. the Few who have been able to control it are usually the strongest, and ones who find some way to ascend anyway. basicly you either learn to control it(IE: guys like Rake and the Demon Lords, and many other characters) or you dont and spend your days being slightly insane(gryllen, and that bear)
2. sole taken and divers are already strong. strong enough to make the god worry as it is, give one a clear path to ascendency, and they are one step closer to become a full blown god.
because its one thing to have a crazy mortal as a ruler, and to have a crazy shapeshifter running around, but like stated in the book, can you imagine a crazy shapeshifter, who's immortal, as the ruler of an empire? it would be VERY hard to stop (IE: think of a crazy power-hungry version of Rake. crazy and nigh-unkillable)
If Icarium poses such a threat - why they just guarding him instead of killing him? Its not possible to cut his head off when he sleeps?
its not that simple.
1. he has mappo. mappo obviously wouldn't let that happen.
2. icarium is a jaghut, and they are EXTREMELY hard to kill IE: why Reast had to be improsuioned, why the iMAss has to put rocks over the fallen jag hut's bodies.
3. if they tried it, he could potentially Rage out and kill them.
4. we dont know at this point, but hints were dropped that icarium is a ascendant. the whole talk of Obelisk being active, and how it falls inline with icarium being back on the continent. if he's an ascendant, then simply cutting his head off wont exactly work. again, think Reast, they literally destroyed his body, and he found a new one. and its arguable that Icarium is much stronger then Reast.
Why Shadowthrone accept to save 1800 children?
there are MANY reasons. but to not add spoilers, simply this.
imagine what you can do with 1800 kids? think about it, right now its basicaly him and dancer/cotillion alone with an entire warren/realm to themselves. and they are gods now, so they will be around for a LONG time.
dancer was one of the best Assassins to ever live and kellanved was said to be a powerful sorcerer right? why not keep them and train these kids to follow their every bidding? imagine having a mini army. sure right not they are kids, but they will grow quickly(atleast quickly to them as Gods who, even while mortal, lived 100+ years, whats another 10 years to them?
within 10 years they can have a skilled, trained army of almost 2,000 assassins and shadow mages. all being led by a Crazy God and immortal assassin patron
not only that, but its been stated that a gods power is derived by their followers, so even with 1800, thats 1800 more then he has before, thus the more people he gets to follow him wether directly as an army, or indirectly as priests and such, the more power he will ultimately have eventually.
Thank you for shading some light into this.
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