Malazan Empire: Series Reread by doing the Path to Ascendency First is really nice. - Malazan Empire

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Series Reread by doing the Path to Ascendency First is really nice.

#1 User is offline   blackzoid 

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Posted 09 October 2020 - 05:04 PM

Hey All
Its been almost 10 years since my last full reread so I decided to start it off by doing the ICE Books first. And you know what, reading the Path to Ascendency books first and then going into NOK and then going into GoTM is really nice. If I knew any new readers it might be something I would really recommend.
Im finding the ICE books are a very nice way to start that doesnt overwhelm the reader. They explain warrens and the world but lay it out in a gradual fashion. There is only one continent to worry about at the start as well and the number of major players is limited. Most importantly their is less of the massive infodump of stuff that the reader has to figure out is what in GoTM.

I know people have their complaints about ICE's writing (and I'm not looking forward to the reread of RoTCG as I think that one is bad) but I have to say, I'm imagining an intro to a new reader for the Malazan world and now I would probably not recommend GOTM and say to just try out the ICE ones first. Then if they dont like that, to jump to GOTM then.

This post has been edited by blackzoid: 09 October 2020 - 05:24 PM

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#2 User is offline   Keysi 

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Posted 24 November 2020 - 02:10 PM

I often wonder about reading it in that order, seems like a good way to go.

Was literally just thinking, before coming online, that there are quite a few ways of going about a read/ Re read that would make sense. I doubt many series can pill that off.


On a related note, I've heard rumours but never saw any proof, that some people have reading the MBotF starting with Midnight Tides. Would be interesting to get someone's opinion who did it that way.
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#3 User is offline   Cyphon 

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Posted 24 November 2020 - 03:43 PM

How would you do it from MT? Do you ignore the preceeding books or at what point would you jump back? Not sure how that works.
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#4 User is offline   Keysi 

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Posted 25 November 2020 - 12:13 AM

I'm not entirely sure myself, that's why I want to find someone who has. It's been talked about in a couple of places on this site. Probably the newcomers area, I'm not sure.

I'd imagine they'd start with Midnight Tides then got to gardens of the moon?
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#5 User is offline   blackzoid 

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Posted 25 November 2020 - 05:34 PM

I would not start at all with MT first, nor would I recommend it. I think some people latch onto it as a possible starting on point because it is set in the past on another continent. But then the problem is, what is book 2 in that order? Is it GOTM in which case the reader has to wait 5 books to get back to the non-Trull characters in MT. Or RG, which makes the order just crazy.

This post has been edited by blackzoid: 25 November 2020 - 05:36 PM

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#6 User is offline   blackzoid 

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Posted 01 July 2021 - 12:05 PM

Been ages but I finished up a few days ago with Assail just in time for Karsa #1. I skipped Kharkanas as I will only reread that one more time when the last is finished.

Was interesting enough starting with ICE books as a soft ease into the world and finishing with ICE books as a main series epilogue. If it wasnt for the spoilers of Wu/Dancer's Ascension I would now recommend this order to newcomers. Its really tied up with "arcs" and keeping storylines one after the other until they naturally finish.


Dancer's Lament
Deadhouse Landing
Kellenved's Reach
(however more Path to Ascendency books ICE writes)
Night of Knives
Gardens of the Moon
Deadhouse Gates
Memories of Ice
House of Chains
Midnight Tides
The Bonehunters
Repear's Gale
Return of the Crimson Guard
Toll the Hounds
Stonewielder
Orb, Sceptre, Throne
Dust of Dreams
The Crippled God
Blood and Bone
Assail

Kharkanas 1-3
Karsa 1-3


If someone wanted to remain 100% spoiler-free of all series mysteries and to preserve the concept of "arcs" I would have a different order with Night of Knives before The Bonehunters and Path to Ascendency between Kharkanas trilogy and Karsa trilogy
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#7 User is offline   Coltaine - 

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Posted 01 July 2021 - 08:10 PM

I was also considering Path to Ascendancy as a good alternative starting point. I will test it the next time I'm trying to get someone to read Malaz
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#8 User is offline   Cyphon 

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Posted 01 July 2021 - 08:28 PM

Well we had better restart the forum reread with this new order then! Apt, set up the threads please.

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#9 User is offline   ContrarianMalazanReader 

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Posted 02 July 2021 - 01:34 AM

I am of the opinion that NoK is totally redundant and, apart from introducing us readers to Kiska, adds nothing to the series unless you intend to read NoK as a coda to Path to Ascendancy.

My suggested reading order of the main Malazan books, which many find unconventional but worth a try, is this one:

1. Gardens of the Moon (Erikson and Esslemont have stated on numerous occasions that they want readers to decide if they want to dive into this series based on this book, and I believe we should respect the authors' wishes).
2. Memories of Ice
3. Deadhouse Gates
4. Midnight Tides
5. House of Chains
6. The Bonehunters
7. Reaper's Gale
8. Return of the Crimson Guard
9. Toll the Hounds
10. Dust of Dreams
11. The Crippled God
12. Stonewielder
13. Blood and Bone
14. Orb Sceptre Throne
15. Assail

This suggested reading order is intended for those who want to have an easier time with the narrative flow and don't want to put up with the constant back and forth between timelines and continents.

I will end this post by asking if the Path to Ascendancy series delves into the details of Dassem's falling out with Hood, because they keep mentioning it throughout the books yet nobody elaborates, which I found really irritating.
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#10 User is offline   Coltaine - 

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Posted 02 July 2021 - 06:36 AM

View PostContrarianMalazanReader, on 02 July 2021 - 01:34 AM, said:

I will end this post by asking if the Path to Ascendancy series delves into the details of Dassem's falling out with Hood, because they keep mentioning it throughout the books yet nobody elaborates, which I found really irritating.


Spoiler

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#11 User is offline   ContrarianMalazanReader 

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Posted 02 July 2021 - 07:13 AM

View PostColtaine -, on 02 July 2021 - 06:36 AM, said:

View PostContrarianMalazanReader, on 02 July 2021 - 01:34 AM, said:

I will end this post by asking if the Path to Ascendancy series delves into the details of Dassem's falling out with Hood, because they keep mentioning it throughout the books yet nobody elaborates, which I found really irritating.


Spoiler


Thanks for the info. I guess I'll wait until PtA is complete so I can finally read all about it.
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#12 User is offline   Abyss 

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Posted 02 July 2021 - 03:18 PM

View PostContrarianMalazanReader, on 02 July 2021 - 01:34 AM, said:

I am of the opinion that NoK is totally redundant and, apart from introducing us readers to Kiska, adds nothing to the series unless you intend to read NoK as a coda to Path to Ascendancy.
...


I am of the opinion that you are wrong.
PtA doesn't show the final division between K/R and Surly, nor K/R faking their deaths and actually becoming ST and Cots. Sure, earlier books reference the events, but that doesn't touch actually reading them.
It also gives us Temper, put an interesting light on Tayschrenn, reveals why Surly mistrusts the Bridgeburners, and hints at the significance of Malaz Island.
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#13 User is offline   Cyphon 

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Posted 02 July 2021 - 07:11 PM

That all rings bells, except the mistrust of the bridge burners. Why is that again?

Edit: or is it just Dujek and Whiskeyjack going there?

This post has been edited by Cyphon: 02 July 2021 - 07:11 PM

Para todos todo, para nosotros nada.

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#14 User is offline   ContrarianMalazanReader 

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Posted 02 July 2021 - 08:38 PM

View PostAbyss, on 02 July 2021 - 03:18 PM, said:

View PostContrarianMalazanReader, on 02 July 2021 - 01:34 AM, said:

I am of the opinion that NoK is totally redundant and, apart from introducing us readers to Kiska, adds nothing to the series unless you intend to read NoK as a coda to Path to Ascendancy.
...


I am of the opinion that you are wrong.
PtA doesn't show the final division between K/R and Surly, nor K/R faking their deaths and actually becoming ST and Cots. Sure, earlier books reference the events, but that doesn't touch actually reading them.
It also gives us Temper, put an interesting light on Tayschrenn, reveals why Surly mistrusts the Bridgeburners, and hints at the significance of Malaz Island.

Believe me, I tried and reread NoK, but despite being the shortest book in the series, I find myself bored to death whenever I read it, and frankly I didn't care at all about Temper. For me Kiska is the book's only saving grace.

If you absolutely want to read NoK, then I would recommend reading it before Stonewielder, as it provides a nice contrast between wide-eyed Kiska the young girl eager to travel the world, and her latter self as a world-weary Claw.
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Posted 05 July 2021 - 02:20 AM

View PostAbyss, on 02 July 2021 - 03:18 PM, said:

View PostContrarianMalazanReader, on 02 July 2021 - 01:34 AM, said:

I am of the opinion that NoK is totally redundant and, apart from introducing us readers to Kiska, adds nothing to the series unless you intend to read NoK as a coda to Path to Ascendancy.
...


I am of the opinion that you are wrong.
PtA doesn't show the final division between K/R and Surly, nor K/R faking their deaths and actually becoming ST and Cots. Sure, earlier books reference the events, but that doesn't touch actually reading them.
It also gives us Temper, put an interesting light on Tayschrenn, reveals why Surly mistrusts the Bridgeburners, and hints at the significance of Malaz Island.



View PostCyphon, on 02 July 2021 - 07:11 PM, said:

That all rings bells, except the mistrust of the bridge burners. Why is that again?

Edit: or is it just Dujek and Whiskeyjack going there?


Ash and some of the other soldiers who supported Kel and Dancer were ex Bridgeburners. SO even before the moment when WJ could have declared for the throne and caused a civil war against Laseen, the BB's were already on the list of people who supported the previous regime.
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Posted 05 July 2021 - 02:29 AM

View PostContrarianMalazanReader, on 02 July 2021 - 08:38 PM, said:

View PostAbyss, on 02 July 2021 - 03:18 PM, said:

View PostContrarianMalazanReader, on 02 July 2021 - 01:34 AM, said:

I am of the opinion that NoK is totally redundant and, apart from introducing us readers to Kiska, adds nothing to the series unless you intend to read NoK as a coda to Path to Ascendancy.
...


I am of the opinion that you are wrong.
PtA doesn't show the final division between K/R and Surly, nor K/R faking their deaths and actually becoming ST and Cots. Sure, earlier books reference the events, but that doesn't touch actually reading them.
It also gives us Temper, put an interesting light on Tayschrenn, reveals why Surly mistrusts the Bridgeburners, and hints at the significance of Malaz Island.

Believe me, I tried and reread NoK, but despite being the shortest book in the series, I find myself bored to death whenever I read it, and frankly I didn't care at all about Temper. For me Kiska is the book's only saving grace.

If you absolutely want to read NoK, then I would recommend reading it before Stonewielder, as it provides a nice contrast between wide-eyed Kiska the young girl eager to travel the world, and her latter self as a world-weary Claw.


'i didn't like 3/4 storylines' doesn't make the book redundant.


The link between the talents on Malaz Island and the Stormriders is made nowhere else. Temper's backstory shows us Dassem's at Yghatan. We meet Agayla and Lubben and Possum for the first time.

You didn't love the book, no worries, to each their own, but don't try to erase its place in the story.
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#17 User is offline   ContrarianMalazanReader 

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Posted 05 July 2021 - 04:08 AM

Erase the book? That's a little extreme. It's not that I don't pretend it doesn't exist, but I have a feeling that once PtA is completed NoK will be greatly enriched, as it pretty much tells the conclusion to Kellanved and Dancer's quest for Ascendancy. I also forgot to mention how much I enjoy the epilogue foreshadowing Stonewielder.
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#18 User is offline   Mist 

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Posted 05 January 2022 - 12:40 PM

View Postblackzoid, on 01 July 2021 - 12:05 PM, said:

Been ages but I finished up a few days ago with Assail just in time for Karsa #1. I skipped Kharkanas as I will only reread that one more time when the last is finished.

Was interesting enough starting with ICE books as a soft ease into the world and finishing with ICE books as a main series epilogue. If it wasnt for the spoilers of Wu/Dancer's Ascension I would now recommend this order to newcomers. Its really tied up with "arcs" and keeping storylines one after the other until they naturally finish.


Dancer's Lament
Deadhouse Landing
Kellenved's Reach
(however more Path to Ascendency books ICE writes)
Night of Knives
Gardens of the Moon
Deadhouse Gates
Memories of Ice
House of Chains
Midnight Tides
The Bonehunters
Repear's Gale
Return of the Crimson Guard
Toll the Hounds
Stonewielder
Orb, Sceptre, Throne
Dust of Dreams
The Crippled God
Blood and Bone
Assail

Kharkanas 1-3
Karsa 1-3


If someone wanted to remain 100% spoiler-free of all series mysteries and to preserve the concept of "arcs" I would have a different order with Night of Knives before The Bonehunters and Path to Ascendency between Kharkanas trilogy and Karsa trilogy


I'm reading the first 3 books of Dune now, but already thinking in my next read and after 8 years I think it's time for a reread including all the new books. I thinks this reading order looks good and will give it a try.




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