[Gorefest]

Tattersail_, on 04 May 2016 - 03:33 PM, said:

Lost was fantastic.

Spoiler

They are not dead, it is not the afterlife/pergatory!

They are not dead, it is not the afterlife/pergatory!

They are not dead, it is not the afterlife/pergatory!

Oh, they were all dead, haha, fooled you.

I did enjoy the show though, don't get me wrong, but well planned-out writing from the start it was not.

[QuickTidal]

LOST was fantastic, and Wert is right, they left VERY little hanging and unanswered in the end.

Heck, I still have people trying to tell me that they didn't explain the Dharma Initiative...and I'm like what? They spent a whole season explaining what the DI was. I think some people may just not have been satisfied with the ending, and as a result like to complain about it.

And I'd never call it bad writing either. We don't have to like what the story they told was or how they told it, but the writing was solid enough for me.

[Tattersail_]

Gorefest, on 04 May 2016 - 03:42 PM, said:

Tattersail_, on 04 May 2016 - 03:33 PM, said:

Lost was fantastic.

Spoiler

They are not dead, it is not the afterlife/pergatory!

They are not dead, it is not the afterlife/pergatory!

They are not dead, it is not the afterlife/pergatory!

Oh, they were all dead, haha, fooled you.

I did enjoy the show though, don't get me wrong, but well planned-out writing from the start it was not.

Nah, on the island they weren't dead, the scene in the church was were they all met once they were dead, whether that be already ie died on the island, or in 30 years time dying off the island, i'm sure the point was, that the island was the best thing to have happened to them in their whole lives. The one thing they always look back on, the one place they were happy. I don't care what other's think, Lost was fantastic.

[Nevyn]

Gorefest, on 04 May 2016 - 03:42 PM, said:

Tattersail_, on 04 May 2016 - 03:33 PM, said:

Lost was fantastic.

Spoiler

They are not dead, it is not the afterlife/pergatory!

They are not dead, it is not the afterlife/pergatory!

They are not dead, it is not the afterlife/pergatory!

Oh, they were all dead, haha, fooled you.

I did enjoy the show though, don't get me wrong, but well planned-out writing from the start it was not.

Are we really going to spoiler tag a show that has been off the air for years?

And as Tattersail said, the afterlife theory was that was what the island was.

And in the end, the island was not the afterlife, but the off island flashes of the last season WERE.

QuickTidal, on 04 May 2016 - 03:44 PM, said:

LOST was fantastic, and Wert is right, they left VERY little hanging and unanswered in the end.

Really? What was the island? How does it move? How does the off island station find it? How did the Dharma initiative find the island in the first place? What was up with Walt before he went to the island? How did the island cure people? Why is there still a Dharma initiative supply drop if they are all dead? Why does the message tube system terminate in a field in the middle of nowhere if the button is real and thus the need to monitor those people from the Pearl is also real? Why does a dead guy turn into a smoke monster? Why does Jacob need a replacement? Why do the pregnant women all die? How did Polar Bears get from the other island to the main one. How did Jack coincidentally end up meeting Desmond?

Not to mention they always left dangling the possibility that Hurley was imagining the whole thing from the asylum.

Oh yeah, and what was the significance of the numbers, and was Hurley cursed?

This post has been edited by Nevyn: 04 May 2016 - 04:17 PM

[QuickTidal]

Tattersail_, on 04 May 2016 - 03:48 PM, said:

Gorefest, on 04 May 2016 - 03:42 PM, said:

Tattersail_, on 04 May 2016 - 03:33 PM, said:

Lost was fantastic.

Spoiler

They are not dead, it is not the afterlife/pergatory!

They are not dead, it is not the afterlife/pergatory!

They are not dead, it is not the afterlife/pergatory!

Oh, they were all dead, haha, fooled you.

I did enjoy the show though, don't get me wrong, but well planned-out writing from the start it was not.

Nah, on the island they weren't dead, the scene in the church was were they all met once they were dead, whether that be already ie died on the island, or in 30 years time dying off the island, i'm sure the point was, that the island was the best thing to have happened to them in their whole lives. The one thing they always look back on, the one place they were happy. I don't care what other's think, Lost was fantastic.

Yeah, I still don't understand why I see this complaint from people.

They were not dead.

Everything that happened, happened.

Only the Sideways flashes in the final season took place after everyone died in their respective timelines at whatever age they finally passed away, and Desmond was gathering them up to bring them to the church, so they could all collectively move on together into the afterlife. The Sideways Flashes (Purgatory) were like a post-life wandering, and the church was the doorway to the afterlife. Everything that occurred on the island, occurred in their lives.

And I always found it interesting that the person who shuffles them all through the church at the end, was Jack's dad...Christian Shepherd.

And yeah Tattersail, I agree with you. Still one of my fave shows ever, and I've re-watched it three times since it ended.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 04 May 2016 - 04:04 PM

[End of Disc One]

Gorefest, on 04 May 2016 - 03:42 PM, said:

Tattersail_, on 04 May 2016 - 03:33 PM, said:

Lost was fantastic.

Spoiler

They are not dead, it is not the afterlife/pergatory!

They are not dead, it is not the afterlife/pergatory!

They are not dead, it is not the afterlife/pergatory!

Oh, they were all dead, haha, fooled you.

I did enjoy the show though, don't get me wrong, but well planned-out writing from the start it was not.

Why do so many people think this? They were clearly not dead the whole time show. That doesn't even make sense yet somehow that's what everyone got out of it.

[QuickTidal]

End of Disc One, on 04 May 2016 - 04:24 PM, said:

Gorefest, on 04 May 2016 - 03:42 PM, said:

Tattersail_, on 04 May 2016 - 03:33 PM, said:

Lost was fantastic.

Spoiler

They are not dead, it is not the afterlife/pergatory!

They are not dead, it is not the afterlife/pergatory!

They are not dead, it is not the afterlife/pergatory!

Oh, they were all dead, haha, fooled you.

I did enjoy the show though, don't get me wrong, but well planned-out writing from the start it was not.

Why do so many people think this? They were clearly not dead the whole time show. That doesn't even make sense yet somehow that's what everyone got out of it.

Indeed, but I see it a LOT when people comment on it, and it confuses me because I wonder if they missed when it was explained.

[champ]

Yeah, how people got lost with the plot I don't know.

[Nevyn]

champ, on 04 May 2016 - 04:34 PM, said:

Yeah, how people got lost with the plot I don't know.

I see what you did there

[amphibian]

Look at those Lost scenes in the church. There's no brown people. The writers and producers threw a ton of stuff against a wall and half of whatever they thought stuck, they ran with - even after making much of the stuff that didn't stick central to their marketing and outside of show games/puzzles/content.

Instead of producing a coherent ending, they went with one that left out all the brown people and rendered nonsensical the work they put into making us care about the flash sideways scenes prior. It is one of the worst endings to a pretty good show that has ever been done.

The lessons from that trainwreck of a show ending have been mostly learned by this GoT set of writers and producers. They aren't promising the moon in puzzles/mysteries and are answering (eventually) the big questions.

[End of Disc One]

I'm not up on my racial classifications, but do Sayid or Rose not count? Also Eko would have been there if his actor didn't demand 5 times what he was offered.

[QuickTidal]

amphibian, on 04 May 2016 - 05:56 PM, said:

Look at those Lost scenes in the church. There's no brown people.

Instead of producing a coherent ending, they went with one that left out all the brown people and rendered nonsensical the work they put into making us care about the flash sideways scenes prior. It is one of the worst endings to a pretty good show that has ever been done.

Amph, I get you didn't like the ending, but why are you saying things that aren't true?

Sayid is there, Jin and Sun are there (not brown, mind you but POC nonetheless), Rose is there, in fact literally EVERYONE who was on the show in the main cast was there in the church at the end, barring Michael (and he murdered two people in S2, and more later so he's not entitled to the church scene). Walt is with Hurley and Ben Linus as the remaining protectors of the Island and the three are outside the church at the end.

Both Mr. Eko (Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje CHOSE to leave the show because he couldn't bear to be away from his family, and forced the writers to write him out after spending a season establishing him. He expressed interest to come back for a S6 cameo but was refused as the producers were still burnt on him leaving them in the lurch in S2), and Ana Lucia (Michelle Rodriguez who was responsible for a drinking and driving incident with a fellow cast member and was kicked off the show as a result, and was persona non grata after that) had off-screen reasons they didn't appear in the church scene.

So I'm not at all sure where your comments that "no brown people were there" comes from, nor how that figures into the ending itself.

Look, LOST was about the journeys the characters. Nothing more. The puzzles, and mysteries were all just accoutrements to those stories.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 04 May 2016 - 07:15 PM

[Abyss]

Nevyn, on 04 May 2016 - 04:01 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 04 May 2016 - 03:44 PM, said:

LOST was fantastic, and Wert is right, they left VERY little hanging and unanswered in the end.

Really? What was the island?

A piece of ground in a large body of water

Quote

How does it move?

Magic. Also, magnets.

Quote

How does the off island station find it?

It never lost it. The underwater chunk and the other smaller island moved with it.

Quote

How did the Dharma initiative find the island in the first place?

People had been finding the island for centuries and some of them managed to escape it. Rumours abounded.

Quote

What was up with Walt before he went to the island?

The Messiah cometh.

Also, goeth. Walt's significance to the show was derailed after S1.

Quote

How did the island cure people?

Magic. Also, magnets.

Quote

Why is there still a Dharma initiative supply drop if they are all dead?

HR hadn't updated Supplies/Infrastructure because they were waiting for the memo from R&D.

Quote

Why does the message tube system terminate in a field in the middle of nowhere if the button is real and thus the need to monitor those people from the Pearl is also real?

One was a fake system, the other was a real system.
And those guys from S/I were dicks.

Quote

Why does a dead guy turn into a smoke monster?

Because he would have been less effective as a smoke armadillo.

Quote

Why does Jacob need a replacement?

His contract was over.

Quote

Why do the pregnant women all die?

Magnets.

...in the sense that something in the island's weirdness field also messed with the processes involved in pregnancy.

Quote

How did Polar Bears get from the other island to the main one.

They swam.

Quote

How did Jack coincidentally end up meeting Desmond?

Wrong question. 90% of the cast had coincidental overlaps in their pre-crash lives.
Kate's father was the interrogator who trained Sayid.
Hurley saw Locke fall.
Christian and Sawyer did shots in a bar.
Etc etc...
...the point is not how or why these things happened, but rather that they did, which brings us back to the significance of the Island.
Also, magic, magnets.

Quote

Not to mention they always left dangling the possibility that Hurley was imagining the whole thing from the asylum.

Not really. That was a fairly standard tv trope. Buffy did the same thing. So did St Elsewhere.

Quote

Oh yeah, and what was the significance of the numbers,

Magic.

Quote

and was Hurley cursed?

No. he was fated.


Easy.

[QuickTidal]

Abyss make some jokes, but honestly most of his answers are spot bloody on. Those questions are all either answered or ambiguous and have no need of explanation.

Most of the weird things that occurred on the island (like the pregnant women thing) were a result of the electromagentic properties buried in the island, and things like the Man in Black (AKA the Smoke monster)...he was a malevolent spirit seeking to escape being kept in check by the good spirit (Jacob)...he took more than one form over the show, but most often the Smoke Monster (because it's scary....I mean he needs no other reasons) and when that didn't work, Locke's dead body reanimated. And you have to understand the Man in Black was NEVER a guy. The bodies that Jacob and he both inhabit are not their true forms. They were stolen when that woman in the past gave birth to those twins, and they were then used as vessels for these two opposing spirits who existed on the island. Note: This is all explained in a latter S6 ep with Jacob and The MiB speaking about it.

But yeah, some of your asks are nitpicks that don't at all matter. I don't understand the need by some to have had everything explained about every little thing that occurred. That ruins it for me. I like things that give me some answers, and leaves other stuff hanging or ambiguous. But questions like "how did the polar bears get from one island to the other?" are so besides the point.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 04 May 2016 - 07:04 PM

[Abyss]

QuickTidal, on 04 May 2016 - 06:54 PM, said:

Abyss make some jokes, but honestly most of his answers are spot bloody on. Those questions are all either answered or ambiguous and have no need of explanation.
....I don't understand the need by some to have had everything explained about every little thing that occurred. That ruins it for me. I like things that give me some answers, and leaves other stuff hanging or ambiguous. But questions like "how did the polar bears get from one island to the other?" are so besides the point.

Yep.

But what I really wanted to know was how they tattooed the shark.

[QuickTidal]

Abyss, on 04 May 2016 - 07:43 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 04 May 2016 - 06:54 PM, said:

Abyss make some jokes, but honestly most of his answers are spot bloody on. Those questions are all either answered or ambiguous and have no need of explanation.
....I don't understand the need by some to have had everything explained about every little thing that occurred. That ruins it for me. I like things that give me some answers, and leaves other stuff hanging or ambiguous. But questions like "how did the polar bears get from one island to the other?" are so besides the point.

Yep.

But what I really wanted to know was how they tattooed the shark.

Carefully?


Heyyoooooooooooooo

[Nevyn]

QuickTidal, on 04 May 2016 - 06:54 PM, said:

Abyss make some jokes, but honestly most of his answers are spot bloody on. Those questions are all either answered or ambiguous and have no need of explanation.

Most of the weird things that occurred on the island (like the pregnant women thing) were a result of the electromagentic properties buried in the island, and things like the Man in Black (AKA the Smoke monster)...he was a malevolent spirit seeking to escape being kept in check by the good spirit (Jacob)...he took more than one form over the show, but most often the Smoke Monster (because it's scary....I mean he needs no other reasons) and when that didn't work, Locke's dead body reanimated. And you have to understand the Man in Black was NEVER a guy. The bodies that Jacob and he both inhabit are not their true forms. They were stolen when that woman in the past gave birth to those twins, and they were then used as vessels for these two opposing spirits who existed on the island. Note: This is all explained in a latter S6 ep with Jacob and The MiB speaking about it.

But yeah, some of your asks are nitpicks that don't at all matter. I don't understand the need by some to have had everything explained about every little thing that occurred. That ruins it for me. I like things that give me some answers, and leaves other stuff hanging or ambiguous. But questions like "how did the polar bears get from one island to the other?" are so besides the point.

Wow, ok. Let's try to remember how this conversation started. Someone wanted an explicit explanation ON GoT to when people can be brought back from the dead and what it takes and who is doing it, and whether anyone can just say please.

And I suggested that they are not likely to get all that resolved citing Lost as an example. So lets keep in mind that I am not saying all of that should have been spelled out. But merely to demonstrate that a lot of things you wonder at while watching a show are never going to get explained.

The point is not to nitpick. The point is that the show sets up all of those questions and mysteries, but does not answer them all explicitly.

Most of what Abyss answered that was not a joke were Abyss' own conclusions, not something explained on the show. They mentioned the electro-magnetism, but the doctor studying pregnant woman and a long way to developing a treatment never says that is the cause.

I purposely left out questions answered by the Smoke Monster appearing as things. That WAS explained,but if you go back to the stuff it explains in season 1 (like appearing as Christian to Jack) it gets pretty tough to explain why the smoke monster would want that to happen.

And and the smoke monster WAS a man, he changed after being thrown into the heard of the island by Jacob. And I am saying they never explained a thing about what the heard of the island was, how it worked, and certainly not how it turns a person into a Smoke Monster.

They tied the plot together, but there are a million things about how or why things work that they never spelled out. Which, again, was the point of Lost as an example in the first place.


Saying because electromagnets is the exact same as saying because R'hllor

This post has been edited by Nevyn: 04 May 2016 - 08:02 PM

[QuickTidal]

Nevyn, on 04 May 2016 - 07:59 PM, said:

And I am saying they never explained a thing about what the heard of the island was, how it worked, and certainly not how it turns a person into a Smoke Monster.

And you need to know all this because? How does knowing or not knowing affect the individual journeys of the characters, or the plot progression.

Do I need to know how the TARDIS works to enjoy it traveling through time? Do I need to know how vampires and all the other beasties were created to enjoy BUFFY?

Explaining the island mechanics (read: magic) is beside the point. The show was never about the island, the island was merely a character (this was in JJ's original pitch with Lindelof) in the show. An interesting and mysterious character to be sure. But what it exactly is and how it exactly works affects none of the character outcomes in any way other than "catalyst".

[Gorefest]

I think what you are saying here is exactly what Nevyn already means in his comment to my original post, i.e. you don't need every detail spelling out for the overall concept to work. I just felt as an aside that Lost wasn't the best example to hang such a trope on, which then spiralled the discussion out of kilter a bit. So I don't think there is a point of contention here between you, you are both in agreement to bitchslap my opinion. Which I am appreciative of, although I still somewhat disagree. I think.

[Nevyn]

Gorefest, on 04 May 2016 - 08:29 PM, said:

I think what you are saying here is exactly what Nevyn already means in his comment to my original post, i.e. you don't need every detail spelling out for the overall concept to work. I just felt as an aside that Lost wasn't the best example to hang such a trope on, which then spiralled the discussion out of kilter a bit. So I don't think there is a point of contention here between you, you are both in agreement to bitchslap my opinion. Which I am appreciative of, although I still somewhat disagree. I think.

This

Minus the part where you still disagreed, anyway.