[Macros]

Im up, will have tike this morning to sit down tonlaptop before heading to work

[Macros]

alrighty post dawn scene -

Kitsu seems to suddenly have sprung wood in my direction. and reckons he has asked me multiple questions which I've dodged, will have to make use of find users content feature to find these questions as I don't remember seeing any at all.

Just Plain Kitsu, on 28 April 2016 - 03:09 AM, said:

I'm curious to see if he responds to this one Ando, since he ignored me both times that I've pointed out this behavior previously. I'd also like to point out that in the post where he voted Tatts, he mentioned he did it because he doesn't like people being helpful to newbies. Dislike of newbies + death of Sierg? Weak, I know. But it's still something to think on.

I don't know if you're deliberately misrepresenting me here or just are misinterpreting and either way, stretching like fuck. I genuinely don't recall anyone asking me questions, let alone the same questions twice, I don't see what there is to respond to here, but....

I never said I was voting Tatts for being helpful, I voted for him for what I saw as early attempts at thread direction and setting himself up as a game leader, by using the excuse of "there's a few new players on thread, lets lay out the game set up for them" (paraphrase) trying to worm his way into newbs good books by acting like the kindly uncle, whilst at the same time trying to get us thinking in rigid lines. I clearly said this in my vote post and the preceding post that was my reason for voting for Tatts, which was tied up with the suspicion on Andorion for the initial role speculation.
I mentioned Mess being almost "nauseatingly helpful", as possibly suspicious as it lets him post an awful lot, without actually posting anything. But it seems he was just genuinely trying to help out new blood

I consistently said Tatts was my preference for a lynch yesterday, but no one else seemed to be overly interested, gut cases aren't the best I'll grant you, but for something that a lot of players touted as "the best case around at the time" Nom sure didn't work out as a great case either.
I'm fine with taking shit for being the hammer, but we were under the hour mark and if we didn't lynch nom, guess what we would be doing right now? wasting another day by lynching him, I really wish it were otherwise, but such is the malazan way.

[Macros]

Just Plain Kitsu, on 27 April 2016 - 07:14 PM, said:

Andorion, on 27 April 2016 - 06:13 PM, said:

Damn I am way too tired to deal with this right now.

Khell started the train on Nom and Macros, Bliss and LB were in at the end. One of these could quite possibly be scum I guess?

I am going to bed. Maybe things will look better in the morning

I'm going to reference my earlier post and vote here. Macros helped start the Ando train, quickly jumped to the Tatter-Train, and vote-hopped at the end to help get Nom out. He's also a vet and that would make it reasonable for him to target either if the night kills. Mess cause we all know he's a strong player, or Sierg since he's a new unknown.

Just putting it out there for thought.

I hate to thank Tatts for anything, but this is a useful tool.

if this is you asking me about something, make it more pointed in my direction, its a vague hand wave in my direction after a one lined vote, why would I bother responding to this? I didn't help start the Ando train, thats bollocks, I posted one line saying I had my eye on him for early role speculation, then voted for Tatts for building on the role speculation in a manner I didnt like, whilst jumping on Andorion for role speculation.

[Khellendros]

Here and reading up.

[Coltaine -]

Also here and reading up

[Khellendros]

Okay, I need to do more reading up on a few people, but I wanted to say that I find it a little odd that people with fewer posts than me are saying I've been quiet. I've been as active as I normally am, barring that first RL day when I had some other things going on. In fact, I've still managed to be in the top 4 or 5 posters If you're intimating that I'm usually an even higher poster than sorry, but you're wrong. Me being among the very top posters is usually a result of surviving deep into the game rather than being a spambot - think about last game, for example.


In any case, I have more of an issue with the current discussion of what HAS to be the scum kill, or what HAS to be the vig kill. There's simply no way to know from the thread with any real degree of certainty, and the rigid conclusions that a couple of people seem to be drawing on the intentions behind the kills is not something I think is particularly helpful at this stage, without more information. Hell, how do we know that it's not two independent killers rather than scum and vig?! No, I do not think that's likely, but my point is we can't be sure of anything from one night's worth of results. The vote train and the lead up to the lynch is what I'll be focusing on then.

There was something else I wanted to reply to but I've forgotten what it is.

[bubba]

Just Plain Kitsu, on 28 April 2016 - 03:31 AM, said:

Gust Hubb, on 28 April 2016 - 03:21 AM, said:

Ok, so here is the list of people that really need a deeper look: Lady Bliss, ADL, JPK, and Coltaine. I just finished the read through and the below is the best post from Bliss.

Lady Bliss, on 26 April 2016 - 04:35 PM, said:

Ok, after skimming through I'm left with the following perceptions:

1) my gut says Tatts is playing way too over the top to be a killer. I could see him more as a symp.
2) Role speculation does stink. I feel like it just helps scum with trying to look like they are participating early, and can be a vehicle for scum to spot roled townies.
3) Khell isn't posting enough.
4) Tapper is posting more than I remember. I'll have to do a post count on the last couple of games to confirm.

TBH I'm leaning towards Khell
I
OR Nom

remove vote

I need to take a deeper dive in looking at posts.

Rarely belligerent and more in for a joke grudge on Nom, Bliss is laying low (which is a pattern with her I think, but this also makes her a dangerous one to ignore)

Lady Bliss, on 27 April 2016 - 12:27 PM, said:

Macros, on 27 April 2016 - 08:44 AM, said:

Have done a sort of reread,well up to page 3 properly then a skip through, have work to do.That's page 3, at 40ppp, the way real mean read the forum.My scribbled notes from the first 3 pages yielded me this.If Andorion were silencer, Id vote for him right now for being too smooth. He calmly backtracks to aline his reasoning with other players, and happily joins in the light hearted banter where ever it appears, totally unflustered by attention he has garnered. But he's not, so I won't, for now. My main beef with Andorion was post #27, with less than 50% of players even checked in, 'lets.get srs' and starts role speculation, pro town role speculation.Then when Tatts follows up and says that we all want to be on the same page with game outline (paraphrased) And does a nice little semi reverse sidestep to aline with this a bit more. Not that it helps him, tatts still chases after And anyway.Mess, had the early doors joke on Khell, and has been almost nauseatingly helpful, even pointing out to newbs who usually dies etc, potential set up for survivor framing?? (rampant speculation)Tatts, ah tatts, still numero uno for me, and it nearly.all cycles back to that post on page one, 'lets get everyone on ehte same basic outline early doors (paraphrased) he backs up his suspicions of And by highlighting it was other players (me and khell) that were suspicious of And dorion, as if to say, see other guys picked it up.first, if we lynch him and he's town, well it was their fault (supposition by myself based on a purely theoretical chain of events)And HO. I'll have to go back and find the post by HO that annoyed me, it jumped off the page at me there but tying to multiwiote and stuff on the phone is just a no, hence the stream of discombobulated thoughts.TLDR - I am suspicious of several players for several reasons (it was nom, drive by vote on Andorion noted, page one hoping for a runaway bandwagon fueled by tatts, khell.and macros suspicions possibly? Further investigation required)Notably Andorion, Tatts, Mess and HO. Quick question, is there an easy way to see one players posts in the thread, like 'show me every post macros has made in this thread, only.macros' posts'?

Andorion, on 27 April 2016 - 08:47 AM, said:

Looking back, back HO seems to have jumped on pretty fast and then backed out again.

Tattersail_, on 27 April 2016 - 08:51 AM, said:

Remove voteFinished my read up, i'm leaning towards voting for HO, thanks to Sergei's case but also the way HO comes onto the thread, quotes a few people, votes Andorion, says he's finished his DKT style catch up

HiddenOne, on 26 April 2016 - 02:29 PM, said:

DKT style catch up^TM is complete, so back to work - I'm out of time to slack off

Yet he added no content, replied to a few quotes with cheeky one liners, and hurtfully didn't mention me once. Sounds bitchy doesn't it, but if you look, Andorion, Messremb, Tapper, Macros, Dhenrabi, had all mentioned me, quoted me and I'd been voted. He doesn't mention Ando's 2 votes on him, nothing mentioned by HO just a little vote on Ando which puts him number 3 on the train. He mentions Macros talking about Ando and mechanics but doesn't mention me talking about them. Skating by as usual. Vote HO

I go to sleep and now have several pages to catch up again... My first thought here is wtf?! Mac mentions HO, then Ando, so then Tatts votes him in rapid succession?

This is odd having Bliss stand up for HO as well. I think she is after Macros (who has seemed a lot more cheery than I remember him), but there is a lot of alarm over HO in both directions. It's a good distraction, but whether it is a distraction away from someone else's guilt or HO's role, I am not sure.



JPK is riding the newb role a bit hard, and I agree with Khell that we cannot just let them slide, even if Tapper ordered only puppies and rainbows for their first game. No, what I am worried about is one of our newbs is getting outside coaching from a more experienced player and just playing up their inexperience (or hiding experience in the case of our sea caterpillar). And now JPK is turning the tables on Khell, an interesting approach to raise ire for the newbie hater...

ADL is usually like this right? Shy, more like a quiet HO? Seriously, there is not much to go off of on the guy. I am really not sure what to do with him, but I don't like him tickling my paranoia...

Gust, I'd love to not be riding this newbie role. Yeah, I pointed out Khell had the first vote of the game placed against him, but that's all I've said in that regard so far. I'm still looking into him. I know he's infamous for being devious around here. I have two current problems: 1- Having to repeat myself multiple times since others just don't seem to be reading my posts. (Example: Lady Bliss asking if I've played before when at the top of the page I clearly stated that I haven't. Same page even!" 2- Macros completely dodging fair questions I've placed his way TWICE now. Without even a mention. Which seems suspicious as hell to me.

I'm also looking deeper into HO, Tapper, and Bubba at the moment. All three are vets that I'm under the impression are usually more active. I was accused of skating day one, but I feel like I still piped up at least as much as these three. Well, maybe not Tapper. The short time Tapper was on, a lot of light seemed to be shed on a couple of subjects.

This is my normal amount of post per game day. I don't sit at a computer for work, so my post are generally before work and after work. I do try to keep up on my phone but that is a pain in the ass to post from. and yes people do read your posts.

I want to see how the day plays out a bit before making any cases.

[Coltaine -]

Andorion, on 28 April 2016 - 04:25 AM, said:

Dhenrabi, on 26 April 2016 - 03:49 PM, said:

I'm not too comfortable with the speed of the Tattersail wagon. I won't be around for quite a while, because of Koningsnacht/dag (Tapper will understand) so I'm going to change my vote for now.

[Vote lynch Coltaine93]


I have just skimmed most of the thread up to this point. I might be back before phase end to read up properly, but I'm not sure.

Did anybody else think this was rather strange?

Have to go off now. Seems like a very full day, probably won't be back for another 8 hours.



Khell and HO need to be looked at

Yeah, me.
But I think I was on his list for editing my second post. I'm not sure if this necessarily deserves a vote, but it was rather early in the thread. And he thought he wouldn't come back in time to vote for someone else so he maybe just voted for someone he hab a gut feeling about.

Khellendros, on 28 April 2016 - 08:01 AM, said:

Okay, I need to do more reading up on a few people, but I wanted to say that I find it a little odd that people with fewer posts than me are saying I've been quiet. I've been as active as I normally am, barring that first RL day when I had some other things going on. In fact, I've still managed to be in the top 4 or 5 posters If you're intimating that I'm usually an even higher poster than sorry, but you're wrong. Me being among the very top posters is usually a result of surviving deep into the game rather than being a spambot - think about last game, for example.


In any case, I have more of an issue with the current discussion of what HAS to be the scum kill, or what HAS to be the vig kill. There's simply no way to know from the thread with any real degree of certainty, and the rigid conclusions that a couple of people seem to be drawing on the intentions behind the kills is not something I think is particularly helpful at this stage, without more information. Hell, how do we know that it's not two independent killers rather than scum and vig?! No, I do not think that's likely, but my point is we can't be sure of anything from one night's worth of results. The vote train and the lead up to the lynch is what I'll be focusing on then.

There was something else I wanted to reply to but I've forgotten what it is.

Okay, I have to admit, without more information this discussion is stuck. Couldn't identify someone I'm thinking he is guilty. Mess too many candidates, Serg nobody he threated really/maybe the list, but I couldn't find something on it we hadn't already discussed. Still interesting to read the point of vies of some more experienced players.


I am now also worried about experienced players lying low, after reading your comments. Lady Bliss and Tapper.
And there are still the people discussed in Day 1. What is with HO. His name is good. He was an alternative to Nom for the lynch, but now the dicussion is mostly about other players. Did I miss something?
I will have a look at his posts

[Coltaine -]

Huh, this will be a long post. I'm a bit surprised he posted that much

HiddenOne, on 26 April 2016 - 02:09 PM, said:

Andorion, on 26 April 2016 - 06:27 AM, said:

On the other hand, if its time to get serious,

M&P with one non standard role?

So, 1-2 killers, 1 symp, 1 healer/guard, and one town vig?

Thoughts, people?

5 seconds into the game and you are starting the mechanics talk?

HiddenOne, on 26 April 2016 - 02:11 PM, said:

Macros, on 26 April 2016 - 07:34 AM, said:

Andorion, on 26 April 2016 - 06:27 AM, said:

On the other hand, if its time to get serious,

M&P with one non standard role?

So, 1-2 killers, 1 symp, 1 healer/guard, and one town vig?

Thoughts, people?

Game mechanics speculation already?
I've got my eye on you Andorion!

See, if Macros said it, it must be worth considering

HiddenOne, on 26 April 2016 - 02:13 PM, said:

People thrashing Andorion for talking about town roles? There will be talk of "that's why nobody wants to post anymore"

Vote Andorion

let that be a lesson to you

Here, votes Andorion for an old post of Macros and the town roles discussion

HiddenOne, on 26 April 2016 - 02:17 PM, said:

Dhenrabi, on 26 April 2016 - 09:38 AM, said:

Oh short introduction since I've not found a better place to do it.

I'm new here, have been playing mafia for a long time on another forum though.

It seemed like great fun to me to join a new community where I'm not yet aware of everyone's meta and such.
I'm watching the mafia 'champions' game, since my other forum also sent a representative, and saw that there was a champion from Malazan Empire (that's you, bear man).
I'm a big fan of Malazan, and not a big fan of the ridiculously 'srs bsns' tone that the bigger mafia boards have, so this seemed perfect.

I'm going to enjoy playing with you all and hope you do the same

You are what we call a Hustler, where I come from - you show up all big-eyed and acting naive, then BAM! you rake in the winnings.

watching you now

Three not so important posts. had to leave them out as I had more than the allowed number of quoted blocks of text.

HiddenOne, on 26 April 2016 - 02:29 PM, said:

DKT style catch up^TM is complete, so back to work - I'm out of time to slack off

His first posting session ended. Mosty not really important posts. DKT style catch up, probably mentioned as explanation/excuse for voting Andorion.


Too many quoted blocks of text. I will split it.

[Coltaine -]

HiddenOne, on 27 April 2016 - 12:22 PM, said:

The word "HO" appears so many times in the last pages that it seems like Santa Claus has come to town, just in time to get a bag of truck-driver grade speed

HiddenOne, on 27 April 2016 - 12:30 PM, said:

Tatts, what is the case on Nom

HiddenOne, on 27 April 2016 - 12:36 PM, said:

I plan to go back and respond to some of the comments pointed at me in due course, but I also have one eye on on the timer and one eye on the work place.


Remove Vote

Removes vote. Probably cause the discussion has turned away from Tatts vs Ando.

HiddenOne, on 27 April 2016 - 12:52 PM, said:

Bubba, on 26 April 2016 - 08:19 PM, said:

Messremb, on 26 April 2016 - 08:06 PM, said:

Bubba, where you got to?

I just got home and have read up. I need to go back and reread, there is just so much to process. The gut reaction is Hidden ones drive by vote on the ando train, but need to re-look at tats wishy washy play.

Bubba, on 26 April 2016 - 11:18 PM, said:

after much nashing of teeth HO stands out most to me, Tatts ...well fuck him for the moment, we will see how He plays out. Having watched him change style on a whim I will wait and gage him over time.

vote HO


his play is much to deliberate.

Ok, this seems to be the beginning of it. Notice Bubba mentions me almost casually, then comes back hours later to drop the vote because I am "to deliberate". No example or explanation cited. If I were a suspicious type, I'd think this felt like a setup.

Defends against the first vote on him by Bubba.
Does Bubba mean to deliberate in comparison to normal? HO barely posted until now anything more than oneliners.

HiddenOne, on 27 April 2016 - 01:35 PM, said:

I also will vote for Nom if need be, I think we need to move on tomorrow without rehashing Day 1.

Oops, I'm doing it.

HiddenOne, on 27 April 2016 - 01:44 PM, said:

Tattersail_, on 27 April 2016 - 01:39 PM, said:

I think with 12 players expressing interest in voting him that he won't be the droid we're looking for.

So what are we supposed to do? Half the train professes he must be scum, the other half just wants a lynch - with a couple people (like yourself) that think he's innocent, but want to lynch him anyway.

What is the right approach? Can you give someone a pass in this scenario, or do we just send them on to oblivion?

HiddenOne, on 27 April 2016 - 02:09 PM, said:

That was actually a serious question. Maybe Tapper will address it when he comes on.

HiddenOne, on 27 April 2016 - 02:20 PM, said:

Tattersail_, on 27 April 2016 - 08:51 AM, said:

Remove vote


Finished my read up, i'm leaning towards voting for HO, thanks to Sergei's case but also the way HO comes onto the thread, quotes a few people, votes Andorion, says he's finished his DKT style catch up

HiddenOne, on 26 April 2016 - 02:29 PM, said:

DKT style catch up^TM is complete, so back to work - I'm out of time to slack off

Yet he added no content, replied to a few quotes with cheeky one liners, and hurtfully didn't mention me once. Sounds bitchy doesn't it, but if you look, Andorion, Messremb, Tapper, Macros, Dhenrabi, had all mentioned me, quoted me and I'd been voted. He doesn't mention Ando's 2 votes on him, nothing mentioned by HO just a little vote on Ando which puts him number 3 on the train. He mentions Macros talking about Ando and mechanics but doesn't mention me talking about them.

Skating by as usual.

Vote HO

What is this even saying? You think I'm suspicious for not talking about you - that is a new one. This feels like you're just making up justifications, honestly. And, here's a hug for you as well.

HiddenOne, on 27 April 2016 - 02:36 PM, said:

Tattersail_, on 27 April 2016 - 10:19 AM, said:

Messremb, on 27 April 2016 - 10:18 AM, said:

Tattersail_, on 27 April 2016 - 10:15 AM, said:

He voted Gusty, but I see HO as the scummiest in this situation.

So it is your case after all. Glad we cleared that up.

Or i'm using that as a platform to find HO scummy. Why so defensive of HO all of a sudden?

This little exchange - Tatts really has a boner for me in a way, it seems

One post left aside. It was me saying that I forgot about HO + responses

HiddenOne, on 27 April 2016 - 02:48 PM, said:

Well, too many hugs and boners in my convo, for sure

LB seems a little grouchy, don't remember her being that way but it's been a while

Gust Hubb - have you become a gym rat recently?

HiddenOne, on 27 April 2016 - 04:25 PM, said:

and the WIFOM is splashed about

Summary: A vote based on an old post, a little fun, a bit defence of himself. Not sure if we can count him as a prime suspect. But maybe he acted strange in comparison to other games. Or he hides too much.

[Khellendros]

From what I make of that, HO is posting way more than he has in recent game - in terms of quantity if not content, anyway. Almost all of them are responding to things about himself, little discussion about other points of the game. You could argue, though, that he was a major point of yesterday, so it's not so surprising. But it is pretty self-interested.

Anyway, slowly reading through the whole thread again. I've still got my eye on those other early Andorion voters (Tatts, Kitsu, HO) but fear I may be getting blinkered on those.

[Tattersail_]

I'm around but a bit busy to post much.

[Khellendros]

Okay, so I've made the heroic effort of looking at Tatts. A few, not necessarily related, points of interest came up which are worth further discussion, I think.


This is from Tatts' very first post. Most of it is saying hello and other non-substantive things to various people, the one exception being the below excerpt aimed at Tapper. Yes, Tapper is good with mechanics, but what reason to trust Tapper's take over anyone else's? Secondly, Tatts is straight out with a recruiter question.

Tattersail_, on 26 April 2016 - 07:20 AM, said:

Tapper, on 26 April 2016 - 05:02 AM, said:

I can see the tweets already at John Oliver.
Lyin' Ted is symped by Kasich. Losers and dummies, both of them!

17 players Tapper, can we get your take on possible mechanics? You think he may have thrown a recruiter into the mix?

Repeats his call out to Tapper on mechanics:

Tattersail_, on 26 April 2016 - 07:22 AM, said:

Andorion, on 26 April 2016 - 06:27 AM, said:

On the other hand, if its time to get serious,

M&P with one non standard role?

So, 1-2 killers, 1 symp, 1 healer/guard, and one town vig?

Thoughts, people?

Usually town versus scum ratio is 3:1 so there's most certainly 2 scum with a symp. I want Tapper's opinion on the non standard role.

With there being a few new guys we best get on the same page day one.

Tatts is the first person to jump on to Andorion with a vote. This is what I was looking out for yesterday, though being first actually makes a case on Tatts being scum slightly weaker in my personal view - one of the reasons why I went for Nom, as he jumped on a potential train, whereas Tatts started it.

Tattersail_, on 26 April 2016 - 08:28 AM, said:

Andorion, on 26 April 2016 - 08:18 AM, said:

Macros, on 26 April 2016 - 07:34 AM, said:

Andorion, on 26 April 2016 - 06:27 AM, said:

On the other hand, if its time to get serious,

M&P with one non standard role?

So, 1-2 killers, 1 symp, 1 healer/guard, and one town vig?

Thoughts, people?

Game mechanics speculation already?
I've got my eye on you Andorion!

What happened to the other one?

Khellendros, on 26 April 2016 - 07:55 AM, said:

Andorion, on 26 April 2016 - 06:27 AM, said:

On the other hand, if its time to get serious,

M&P with one non standard role?

So, 1-2 killers, 1 symp, 1 healer/guard, and one town vig?

Thoughts, people?

I have two thoughts.

1) Those are all standard roles you've listed in my view.

2) You want us to speculate on town roles. That's interesting.

3) I'm hungry.


Guess I had three thoughts. Now to do something about the third.

Since non-standard was mentioned, I thought it better to list out the standards and get them out of the way first. Town vig may be a non standard. Too tame for you though?

Vote Andorion


Second time you're looking into town roles. BIG NO.

Dhenrabi comes on and votes Tattersail (I've cut the post down), one reason being that his first post seemed to say a lot but with little actual content. Tatts defends this by saying the first post wasn't meant to add anything game-related...but of course it did have something game-related! The question to Tapper about mechanics and specifically recruiters.

Tattersail_, on 26 April 2016 - 10:35 AM, said:

Dhenrabi, on 26 April 2016 - 09:25 AM, said:

I don't know anything about Tattersail's meta, but the first one is a very long post without making a single game-related point.
Also very interesting to note is how Tattersail first joined into Andorion's mechanics talk, then later claims that Macros and Khell make good points about him, while still (on his own) continuing the mechanics talk.
I think between Andorion and Tattersail, Tattersail came off more suspicious in this exchange.

[Vote lynch Tattersail]

Oh hello, nicely done. The first post wasn't meant to add anything game related, it is day one after all.

The difference between me speculating on what the extra role may be, (asking Tapper, who has run a lot of games) and Andorion speculating on what town roles there may be is huge. I am looking at it from a town perspective which should not benefit scum, whereas he is looking into town roles which can only benefit scum.

Another vote for Tattersail, by Macros. What might be of nterest here is that Tatts predicts two deaths. So now that that has indeed happened, what do you make of it, Tatts?

Tattersail_, on 26 April 2016 - 10:48 AM, said:

Macros, on 26 April 2016 - 10:10 AM, said:

Tattersail_, on 26 April 2016 - 07:22 AM, said:

Andorion, on 26 April 2016 - 06:27 AM, said:

On the other hand, if its time to get serious,

M&P with one non standard role?

So, 1-2 killers, 1 symp, 1 healer/guard, and one town vig?

Thoughts, people?

Usually town versus scum ratio is 3:1 so there's most certainly 2 scum with a symp. I want Tapper's opinion on the non standard role.

With there being a few new guys we best get on the same page day one.

There he is, mr 'oh so helpful to the newbies' Tattersail.
Congrats tatts, you just jumped to the head of the queue.

vote Tattersail

Whilst I don't like andoruons speculation, this little bit of subtle yet oh so helpful directioning floats my boat for a vote. And his happiness to lump suspicion on Andorion while doing exactly what he does just helps.

Also, will be mostly.playing from phone, expect typos galore, and alted seems to autocorrect to salted, and I get sick of fixing it so bear that in mind.

Macros out while he drives to next job

I see your points regarding the assumptions. Like I said earlier, there is that elephant, the one over there, but we mustn't talk about it until we get more information. Like 2 deaths, or a cult CF like Mess mentioned. Which is fair enough.

[Khellendros]

Blend then gets on board with suspicions of Tatts, and in these next two posts below Tatts helpfully points out where the suspicions of cult may have come from - Tatts himself, and then posts his own reasoning for it, which he didn't mention before.

Tattersail_, on 26 April 2016 - 03:22 PM, said:

Blend, on 26 April 2016 - 03:09 PM, said:

I really liked this post:

Macros, on 26 April 2016 - 10:04 AM, said:

My my look at the hornets nest that got poked.

Personally I dislike role speculation, especially this early as it only plays into the scums hands.
And (it was andorion I don't think, will check) someone then followed up with something along the lines of 'well we need to get things straight early on'.
No we don't, anything assumed now is just that, an assumption, and playing a game out based on day one speculation is asking for trouble. This kind of talk just screams attempts at thread direction to me, which I really dislike. Going back to page one here to see if I can find the offending post. Maybe it was andorion, but I think it was someone else.

Early doors yet, but currently would vote for andorion or the other post Im going to hunt down. Probably wrong, as its overtly blatant but it could be a dump or a ballsy scum. Unlikely.

Especially considering he then went and pulled out the post he was talking about:

Macros, on 26 April 2016 - 10:10 AM, said:

Tattersail_, on 26 April 2016 - 07:22 AM, said:

Andorion, on 26 April 2016 - 06:27 AM, said:

On the other hand, if its time to get serious,

M&P with one non standard role?

So, 1-2 killers, 1 symp, 1 healer/guard, and one town vig?

Thoughts, people?

Usually town versus scum ratio is 3:1 so there's most certainly 2 scum with a symp. I want Tapper's opinion on the non standard role.

With there being a few new guys we best get on the same page day one.

There he is, mr 'oh so helpful to the newbies' Tattersail.
Congrats tatts, you just jumped to the head of the queue.

vote Tattersail

Whilst I don't like andoruons speculation, this little bit of subtle yet oh so helpful directioning floats my boat for a vote. And his happiness to lump suspicion on Andorion while doing exactly what he does just helps.

Also, will be mostly.playing from phone, expect typos galore, and alted seems to autocorrect to salted, and I get sick of fixing it so bear that in mind.

Macros out while he drives to next job

I've certainly seen worse Day 1 cases. Plus, we can't leave Tatts and Khell BOTH around. If they're on the same team, we'd best hope it's town otherwise we get rid of one of them fast!

I'm having a really hard time understanding where the hell this came from:

Messremb, on 26 April 2016 - 10:07 AM, said:

Yes, no assumptions on Cult till we see a Cult CF!

When Andorion calls him out on it, he then mentions a few other of the non-regular mechanics (SK, FM), I think to try to hide something he shouldn't have said. Of course, that's kind of stupid of me to assume, Messremb's a crafty bastard, so I doubt he's not fully aware of exactly what he's doing.

Anyway, point is, I'm keeping my eye on Messremb, but I'm most interested, at this moment, in voting on Tatts.

Messremb may get his reference to Cult from this

Quote

17 players Tapper, can we get your take on possible mechanics? You think he may have thrown a recruiter into the mix?

I mentioned this in my first post. I got it from somewhere recently, just trying to remember where...

Tattersail_, on 26 April 2016 - 03:23 PM, said:

Ah, found it.

Grief, on 22 April 2016 - 06:31 PM, said:

3. Why so few cult games? I'm not talking mind-bending mechanical monstrosities, which is where we do seem to find cults. I'm talking about other forms of low TMDI game, aside from the standard M&P. Cult games in particular have something of an advantage over killer games in terms of activity; players don't die off except through lynching, and there are essentially an increasing number of symps to give people clues. Mixing up the Low TMDI games could be helpful I think. As it stands, I feel like there can be a bit of a dichotomy here between very standard M&P and very complicated high TMDI games.

Grief mentions it, then Tapper and Shin mention it too. Not too far off the mark that Gnaw may have included one in this game, as it has been a while since we seen one and 17 players is quite a high number for just 3 scum.

Ah, this one is absolutely classic Tatts. Someone votes for you/attacks you, they must be scum, vote them back This is an age-old Tatts reaction, whether he's town, scum, or anything in between. So ultimately I don't think this particular reaction tells us much.

Tattersail_, on 26 April 2016 - 04:12 PM, said:

Blend, on 26 April 2016 - 04:05 PM, said:

I've certainly got my eye on Andorion, but nothing you've said above dissuades me of voting for you. You basically rehashed the same posts I originally pulled out, and tried to make Macros seem suspicious for being suspicious of you... A suspicion which I agreed with. So are you saying that if I agree with Macros, I must also be suspicious (I know, I know, but let's be serious here)?

Obviously I rehashed the same posts that you pulled out as I was responding to them, you just said I ignored your posts, and now you're saying I shouldn't respond to them? Contradicting yourself here aren't you?

Trying to put words in my mouth, i've not accused Macros of anything, and agree with his point hence the nipping it in the bud and moving in a different direction.

This is quite bad town play.

remove vote


vote Blend


You shouldn't be lying to try and get a train going, you should at least be aware of my responses and motivations, if you are not willing to do so then maybe that's because you're scum. I'm not 100% sure about anyone, I see Ando as a good vote but your recent play has gathered my vote.

So this below is the start of Tatts backtracking on Andorion and the start of him going after HO instead (that Blend attack didn't last long then). He says he's going to give Kitsu a pass - wasn't *I* the one accused of that by someone? I would be interested to know Tatts' opinions on Kitsu and HO now.

Tattersail_, on 27 April 2016 - 08:10 AM, said:

Siergiej, on 26 April 2016 - 06:54 PM, said:

Moving towards the meaty part, aka throwing accusations. There's a lot of meta play going on and the pace is very fast, so I'm struggling a bit, but my thinking so far is as follows. Andorion and Tatts seem the most vocal and it started with Tatts accusing Andorion of being scum because of him touching on mechanics very early.

It was him bringing in/speculating on town mechanics that raised my eyebrows fyi.

Quote

That sounds like grasping at straws very early in the game, but Tatts also puts a big mark on his back with going after someone this openly. That would be a risk of outing himself immediately. So I'm inclined to think he's not scum. I'm also not convinced by the Andorion mentioned mechanics therefore scum thinking, so I'm leaning towards suspecting one of the people who jumped on the lynching Andorion bandwagon, as an easy way to quickly kill off a townie.

I assume everyone is guilty until they are proven innocent. Everyone has motivations, I'm not always willing to let go of a subject and move onto the next suspicious person. (I find it hard to let go). Yet day one is always a crap shot, and by harping on, I draw out people's opinions on the matter.

Quote

These people are:
Nom, HiddenOne, Kitsu
'm not voting yet, because I want to understand better lynching on day 1. Then I'll add my vote, most likely for one of the three mentioned above.

Oka Champions League time!

As long as people have an opinion then their vote is valid, yet jumping on and not adding to the discussion is an easy way of skating by. I have not looked at their votes yet but out of the three you mention I'd be willing to give Kitsu a pass. I wouldn't want to scare the new guys into not voting. It sets a bad future impression.

Nom and HiddenOne both have multiple games on this site under their belt, so they know what they are doing. I'll quickly look at their votes..

First up Nom.

Itwas Nom, on 26 April 2016 - 08:48 AM, said:

Town has barely any profit from those speculation, let scum figure on their own

for now

vote Andorion

This is 20 minutes after my vote, and on page one to boot. It doesn't look like a pressure vote, it does not look like a joke vote, he has a reason which means it is a serious early vote from him.

HiddenOne, on 26 April 2016 - 02:13 PM, said:

People thrashing Andorion for talking about town roles? There will be talk of "that's why nobody wants to post anymore"

Vote Andorion

let that be a lesson to you

This seems like a less serious vote but it is vote number 3 on Ando, this pushes him into dangerous territory. Without another option people may pile on just to get the lynch.


Then we have Ando's reaction

Andorion, on 26 April 2016 - 02:29 PM, said:

12 hours into the game and the only remarkable thing happening is the lynch train developing on me as I have profaned the sacred mafia alter of "Touch not the game mechanics". Also because people aren't finding anything else voteworthy yet.

Most interesting thing to me? Tatts lightning swift volte face regarding same issue when I was challenged.

Hmmm. Couple that with a divergence from his usual style of play and its quite quite suspicious.

This is quite a calm response, and he does not seem to be panicky one bit. Reading after the Kitsu vote he remains calm as well. This makes me lean Ando towards the town side of the fence.

So looking at it from fresh eyes this morning I'd be more willing to vote HO.

Going to read up a little further.

Edit: I failed to spot before I posted this that Tatts DID mention his first post as talking about a recruiter.

This post has been edited by Khellendros: 28 April 2016 - 12:10 PM

[Khellendros]

Votes HO, makes sure to note that it was inspired by someone else, Siergiej.

Tattersail_, on 27 April 2016 - 08:51 AM, said:

Remove vote


Finished my read up, i'm leaning towards voting for HO, thanks to Sergei's case but also the way HO comes onto the thread, quotes a few people, votes Andorion, says he's finished his DKT style catch up

HiddenOne, on 26 April 2016 - 02:29 PM, said:

DKT style catch up^TM is complete, so back to work - I'm out of time to slack off

Yet he added no content, replied to a few quotes with cheeky one liners, and hurtfully didn't mention me once. Sounds bitchy doesn't it, but if you look, Andorion, Messremb, Tapper, Macros, Dhenrabi, had all mentioned me, quoted me and I'd been voted. He doesn't mention Ando's 2 votes on him, nothing mentioned by HO just a little vote on Ando which puts him number 3 on the train. He mentions Macros talking about Ando and mechanics but doesn't mention me talking about them.

Skating by as usual.

Vote HO

"It's not my case, it's Siergiej's!" That's quite revealing, I think. Almost a, 'if we do end up lynching HO, and he turns up town, make sure to blame Siergiej, not me!'.

Tattersail_, on 27 April 2016 - 10:09 AM, said:

Messremb, on 27 April 2016 - 10:02 AM, said:

Tattersail_, on 27 April 2016 - 09:54 AM, said:

Tattersail_, on 27 April 2016 - 09:54 AM, said:

HiddenOne, on 26 April 2016 - 02:29 PM, said:

DKT style catch up^TM is complete, so back to work - I'm out of time to slack off

Yet he added no content, replied to a few quotes with cheeky one liners, and hurtfully didn't mention me once. Sounds bitchy doesn't it, but if you look, Andorion, Messremb, Tapper, Macros, Dhenrabi, had all mentioned me, quoted me and I'd been voted. He doesn't mention Ando's 2 votes on him, nothing mentioned by HO just a little vote on Ando which puts him number 3 on the train. He mentions Macros talking about Ando and mechanics but doesn't mention me talking about them.

Skating by as usual.

Vote HO

Plus what I said earlier, and turned it into that little one liner?

Are you trying to weaken my vote of him?

"Skating by as usual" seeks to imply that he is playing in normal fashion. "Normally" a player is Town as that is the most common role. Even with the full quote you weren't saying he looked heavily invested, it just added to the implied view - no content, one liners. That's generally HO He's got so much invested I tihnk you need to find it Tatts.

I don't think the case can take much weakening as it is hardly there to begin with

But it's not my case is it? It is Sergei's case, and I'm adding my own two cents to it.

After that, there's quite a number of posts between Messremb and Tattersail regarding the merits of voting for HO. It goes on for quite a while, eventually ending when Mess puts his vote on Nom. Anyway, what I wanted to emphasise with this is Tatts' insistence in going for HO. This is then later joined with strident opposition to voting for Nom.

Tattersail_, on 27 April 2016 - 11:20 AM, said:

So after all that, you could have just voted Nom, or did that post. Basically you didn't like my vote on HO, and felt the need to defend him. At its core that's what just happened.

As outlined in the next couple of posts...

Tattersail_, on 27 April 2016 - 12:08 PM, said:

Gust Hubb, on 27 April 2016 - 12:04 PM, said:

So why not nom Tatts?

2 hours to go, i'll switch if needed but feel more comfortable with my vote where it is.

Tattersail_, on 27 April 2016 - 12:28 PM, said:

Gust Hubb, on 27 April 2016 - 12:11 PM, said:

That wasn't an answer

He's on 7 votes so far, i'd have thought it'd be more difficult to lynch a scum member. I already commented on Nom earlier on, you'll spot it in your reread.

So a few different things here, and at least two things I'm going to talk about now that I criticised others for doing earlier (yeah yeah, hypocrite!)

...In fact, I'm not going to talk about the second of those, which was going to be the kills. Thinking on it that's just way too much WIFOM.


First thing is the recruiter talk, which Tatts brings up first, not Mess. He's also the first to mention multiple kills, and is of the opinion that the unusual role is probably scum. Overall Tatts is quite interested in that particular role from the off.


So that jumped out at me. The other point that struck me is that, while Tatts is pretty keen on lynching HO, he's also equally keen to inform us that it's not his idea, but someone else's, and he's merely going along with it. So on the one hand he displays strong convictions about going for HO over Nom, but on the other ultimately it was someone else's idea if in the end HO is lynched but the result isn't scum.

[Khellendros]

I should clarify as I didn't spot it before reading my own posts again - Tatts does actually acknowledge that he first mentioned recruiters, not Mess. I somehow failed to realise Tatts was referring to his own post. So he's not hiding that after all.

[Lady Bliss]

Back and reading up.

[Lady Bliss]

Gust Hubb, on 28 April 2016 - 03:21 AM, said:

Ok, so here is the list of people that really need a deeper look: Lady Bliss, ADL, JPK, and Coltaine. I just finished the read through and the below is the best post from Bliss.

Lady Bliss, on 26 April 2016 - 04:35 PM, said:

Ok, after skimming through I'm left with the following perceptions:

1) my gut says Tatts is playing way too over the top to be a killer. I could see him more as a symp.
2) Role speculation does stink. I feel like it just helps scum with trying to look like they are participating early, and can be a vehicle for scum to spot roled townies.
3) Khell isn't posting enough.
4) Tapper is posting more than I remember. I'll have to do a post count on the last couple of games to confirm.

TBH I'm leaning towards Khell
I
OR Nom

remove vote

I need to take a deeper dive in looking at posts.

Rarely belligerent and more in for a joke grudge on Nom, Bliss is laying low (which is a pattern with her I think, but this also makes her a dangerous one to ignore)

Lady Bliss, on 27 April 2016 - 12:27 PM, said:

Macros, on 27 April 2016 - 08:44 AM, said:

Have done a sort of reread,well up to page 3 properly then a skip through, have work to do.That's page 3, at 40ppp, the way real mean read the forum.My scribbled notes from the first 3 pages yielded me this.If Andorion were silencer, Id vote for him right now for being too smooth. He calmly backtracks to aline his reasoning with other players, and happily joins in the light hearted banter where ever it appears, totally unflustered by attention he has garnered. But he's not, so I won't, for now. My main beef with Andorion was post #27, with less than 50% of players even checked in, 'lets.get srs' and starts role speculation, pro town role speculation.Then when Tatts follows up and says that we all want to be on the same page with game outline (paraphrased) And does a nice little semi reverse sidestep to aline with this a bit more. Not that it helps him, tatts still chases after And anyway.Mess, had the early doors joke on Khell, and has been almost nauseatingly helpful, even pointing out to newbs who usually dies etc, potential set up for survivor framing?? (rampant speculation)Tatts, ah tatts, still numero uno for me, and it nearly.all cycles back to that post on page one, 'lets get everyone on ehte same basic outline early doors (paraphrased) he backs up his suspicions of And by highlighting it was other players (me and khell) that were suspicious of And dorion, as if to say, see other guys picked it up.first, if we lynch him and he's town, well it was their fault (supposition by myself based on a purely theoretical chain of events)And HO. I'll have to go back and find the post by HO that annoyed me, it jumped off the page at me there but tying to multiwiote and stuff on the phone is just a no, hence the stream of discombobulated thoughts.TLDR - I am suspicious of several players for several reasons (it was nom, drive by vote on Andorion noted, page one hoping for a runaway bandwagon fueled by tatts, khell.and macros suspicions possibly? Further investigation required)Notably Andorion, Tatts, Mess and HO. Quick question, is there an easy way to see one players posts in the thread, like 'show me every post macros has made in this thread, only.macros' posts'?

Andorion, on 27 April 2016 - 08:47 AM, said:

Looking back, back HO seems to have jumped on pretty fast and then backed out again.

Tattersail_, on 27 April 2016 - 08:51 AM, said:

Remove voteFinished my read up, i'm leaning towards voting for HO, thanks to Sergei's case but also the way HO comes onto the thread, quotes a few people, votes Andorion, says he's finished his DKT style catch up

HiddenOne, on 26 April 2016 - 02:29 PM, said:

DKT style catch up^TM is complete, so back to work - I'm out of time to slack off

Yet he added no content, replied to a few quotes with cheeky one liners, and hurtfully didn't mention me once. Sounds bitchy doesn't it, but if you look, Andorion, Messremb, Tapper, Macros, Dhenrabi, had all mentioned me, quoted me and I'd been voted. He doesn't mention Ando's 2 votes on him, nothing mentioned by HO just a little vote on Ando which puts him number 3 on the train. He mentions Macros talking about Ando and mechanics but doesn't mention me talking about them. Skating by as usual. Vote HO

I go to sleep and now have several pages to catch up again... My first thought here is wtf?! Mac mentions HO, then Ando, so then Tatts votes him in rapid succession?

This is odd having Bliss stand up for HO as well. I think she is after Macros (who has seemed a lot more cheery than I remember him), but there is a lot of alarm over HO in both directions. It's a good distraction, but whether it is a distraction away from someone else's guilt or HO's role, I am not sure.



JPK is riding the newb role a bit hard, and I agree with Khell that we cannot just let them slide, even if Tapper ordered only puppies and rainbows for their first game. No, what I am worried about is one of our newbs is getting outside coaching from a more experienced player and just playing up their inexperience (or hiding experience in the case of our sea caterpillar). And now JPK is turning the tables on Khell, an interesting approach to raise ire for the newbie hater...

ADL is usually like this right? Shy, more like a quiet HO? Seriously, there is not much to go off of on the guy. I am really not sure what to do with him, but I don't like him tickling my paranoia...

Where did I defend HO? I was commenting on the sudden change of direction by Mac, Tatts and Ando.

[Lady Bliss]

Just Plain Kitsu, on 28 April 2016 - 03:31 AM, said:

Gust Hubb, on 28 April 2016 - 03:21 AM, said:

Ok, so here is the list of people that really need a deeper look: Lady Bliss, ADL, JPK, and Coltaine. I just finished the read through and the below is the best post from Bliss.

Lady Bliss, on 26 April 2016 - 04:35 PM, said:

Ok, after skimming through I'm left with the following perceptions:

1) my gut says Tatts is playing way too over the top to be a killer. I could see him more as a symp.
2) Role speculation does stink. I feel like it just helps scum with trying to look like they are participating early, and can be a vehicle for scum to spot roled townies.
3) Khell isn't posting enough.
4) Tapper is posting more than I remember. I'll have to do a post count on the last couple of games to confirm.

TBH I'm leaning towards Khell
I
OR Nom

remove vote

I need to take a deeper dive in looking at posts.

Rarely belligerent and more in for a joke grudge on Nom, Bliss is laying low (which is a pattern with her I think, but this also makes her a dangerous one to ignore)

Lady Bliss, on 27 April 2016 - 12:27 PM, said:

Macros, on 27 April 2016 - 08:44 AM, said:

Have done a sort of reread,well up to page 3 properly then a skip through, have work to do.That's page 3, at 40ppp, the way real mean read the forum.My scribbled notes from the first 3 pages yielded me this.If Andorion were silencer, Id vote for him right now for being too smooth. He calmly backtracks to aline his reasoning with other players, and happily joins in the light hearted banter where ever it appears, totally unflustered by attention he has garnered. But he's not, so I won't, for now. My main beef with Andorion was post #27, with less than 50% of players even checked in, 'lets.get srs' and starts role speculation, pro town role speculation.Then when Tatts follows up and says that we all want to be on the same page with game outline (paraphrased) And does a nice little semi reverse sidestep to aline with this a bit more. Not that it helps him, tatts still chases after And anyway.Mess, had the early doors joke on Khell, and has been almost nauseatingly helpful, even pointing out to newbs who usually dies etc, potential set up for survivor framing?? (rampant speculation)Tatts, ah tatts, still numero uno for me, and it nearly.all cycles back to that post on page one, 'lets get everyone on ehte same basic outline early doors (paraphrased) he backs up his suspicions of And by highlighting it was other players (me and khell) that were suspicious of And dorion, as if to say, see other guys picked it up.first, if we lynch him and he's town, well it was their fault (supposition by myself based on a purely theoretical chain of events)And HO. I'll have to go back and find the post by HO that annoyed me, it jumped off the page at me there but tying to multiwiote and stuff on the phone is just a no, hence the stream of discombobulated thoughts.TLDR - I am suspicious of several players for several reasons (it was nom, drive by vote on Andorion noted, page one hoping for a runaway bandwagon fueled by tatts, khell.and macros suspicions possibly? Further investigation required)Notably Andorion, Tatts, Mess and HO. Quick question, is there an easy way to see one players posts in the thread, like 'show me every post macros has made in this thread, only.macros' posts'?

Andorion, on 27 April 2016 - 08:47 AM, said:

Looking back, back HO seems to have jumped on pretty fast and then backed out again.

Tattersail_, on 27 April 2016 - 08:51 AM, said:

Remove voteFinished my read up, i'm leaning towards voting for HO, thanks to Sergei's case but also the way HO comes onto the thread, quotes a few people, votes Andorion, says he's finished his DKT style catch up

HiddenOne, on 26 April 2016 - 02:29 PM, said:

DKT style catch up^TM is complete, so back to work - I'm out of time to slack off

Yet he added no content, replied to a few quotes with cheeky one liners, and hurtfully didn't mention me once. Sounds bitchy doesn't it, but if you look, Andorion, Messremb, Tapper, Macros, Dhenrabi, had all mentioned me, quoted me and I'd been voted. He doesn't mention Ando's 2 votes on him, nothing mentioned by HO just a little vote on Ando which puts him number 3 on the train. He mentions Macros talking about Ando and mechanics but doesn't mention me talking about them. Skating by as usual. Vote HO

I go to sleep and now have several pages to catch up again... My first thought here is wtf?! Mac mentions HO, then Ando, so then Tatts votes him in rapid succession?

This is odd having Bliss stand up for HO as well. I think she is after Macros (who has seemed a lot more cheery than I remember him), but there is a lot of alarm over HO in both directions. It's a good distraction, but whether it is a distraction away from someone else's guilt or HO's role, I am not sure.



JPK is riding the newb role a bit hard, and I agree with Khell that we cannot just let them slide, even if Tapper ordered only puppies and rainbows for their first game. No, what I am worried about is one of our newbs is getting outside coaching from a more experienced player and just playing up their inexperience (or hiding experience in the case of our sea caterpillar). And now JPK is turning the tables on Khell, an interesting approach to raise ire for the newbie hater...

ADL is usually like this right? Shy, more like a quiet HO? Seriously, there is not much to go off of on the guy. I am really not sure what to do with him, but I don't like him tickling my paranoia...

Gust, I'd love to not be riding this newbie role. Yeah, I pointed out Khell had the first vote of the game placed against him, but that's all I've said in that regard so far. I'm still looking into him. I know he's infamous for being devious around here. I have two current problems: 1- Having to repeat myself multiple times since others just don't seem to be reading my posts. (Example: Lady Bliss asking if I've played before when at the top of the page I clearly stated that I haven't. Same page even!" 2- Macros completely dodging fair questions I've placed his way TWICE now. Without even a mention. Which seems suspicious as hell to me.

I'm also looking deeper into HO, Tapper, and Bubba at the moment. All three are vets that I'm under the impression are usually more active. I was accused of skating day one, but I feel like I still piped up at least as much as these three. Well, maybe not Tapper. The short time Tapper was on, a lot of light seemed to be shed on a couple of subjects.

Congratulations on using the age old tactic of the deliberate misread! If you read back, I asked you if you played IN THE LAST GAME. There is a significant difference I interpretation here.

[Lady Bliss]

Andorion, on 28 April 2016 - 04:25 AM, said:

Dhenrabi, on 26 April 2016 - 03:49 PM, said:

I'm not too comfortable with the speed of the Tattersail wagon. I won't be around for quite a while, because of Koningsnacht/dag (Tapper will understand) so I'm going to change my vote for now.

[Vote lynch Coltaine93]


I have just skimmed most of the thread up to this point. I might be back before phase end to read up properly, but I'm not sure.

Did anybody else think this was rather strange?

Have to go off now. Seems like a very full day, probably won't be back for another 8 hours.



Khell and HO need to be looked at

Yeah, that seemed like an odd vote, I didn't see any reasoning behind it.