[Aptorian]

I noticed that we didn't have a Wrestling thread. How is this possible!?

I've slowly been getting into Wrestling again over the last year. Even though I haven't been watching wrestling I've been listening to podcasts and subscribed to the Squared Circle on Reddit. All those Macho Man gifs are hilarious.

I remembered that WWE has launched an internet subscription that gives access to Pay Per View and their archives. This thing is crazy. It's basically, as far as I can tell, the entire collected work of WWF, WCW, ECW and probably more.

I can't say I am particularly interested in what is currently being shown on WWE but I want to watch all the old matches I remember from when I was a kid. So I think I am going to be watching all the old Wrestlemanias and Royal Rumbles.

Anybody else watching Wrestling currently or remember is from they were younger?

This post has been edited by Apt: 13 March 2016 - 03:10 PM

[Andorion]

I used to watch it when Evolution was still a thing, Cena and Lesnar were atarting off and RVD was popular. Not at all recently. My brother is super into it though

[Gorefest]

Yeah, my wife and I are massively into it. We visit all the televised shows when they come to the UK. Going to Raw and Smackdown in London in April and we got some Daniel Bryan appreciation T-shirts for the occasion (Smackdown London apparently is one of the upcoming DB appreciation nights).

Big into NXT as well, it has really revitalised the whole thing.

[Gorefest]

Apt, on 13 March 2016 - 08:59 AM, said:

I remembered that WWE has launched an internet subscription that gives access to Pay Per View and their archives. This thing is crazy. It's basically, as far as I can tell, the entire collected work of WWF, WCW, ECW and probably more.

It is awesome. Apart from the things you mentioned it also has lots of original content. All the Stonecold podcasts, breaking ground, legend's house, table for three, Monday night wars, etc. If you are into it, it is definitely worth the money. Just for the PPVs alone it is worth it. It also streams NXT, which is their revamped developmental branch (used to be FCW). Some amazing talent coming out of there, like the former Shield, the Wyatt's, Neville, two of the New Day lads, a wave of actually good women wrestlers, etc.

[Aptorian]

Just finished Wrestlemania 1

My first impression is that this is actually how I remember old wrestling. It's presented as a legitimate sport event. The focus is on the ring. The in-ring wrestling is actually sports like in that they are using wrestling moves, jumps, submission moves, dirty tricks, etc. but there isn't all the punching, kicking and brawling that I've come to associate with modern wrestling. It feels more "real" than the modern stuff.

I love that they actually have people and journalists sitting right outside the rope. A guy got thrown out over the rope and the audience had to jump out of the way. There were folding chairs just outside the ring. Clearly the safety regulations weren't quite what they are today.

It's funny to see how archaic a lot of the stuff seems. Some of the jobbers just look like an ordinary guy pulled off the street. Clearly, from the size of them, these are big men, but they just look like a normal "athletes" rather than the steroid monsters of later years.

Similarly their microphone work is really basic if outright goofy. The very first match is between Tito Santana and The Executioner. The executioner is just an out of shape guy with a poorly fitting latex mask. It seems laughable by modern standards but I imagine he was probably cool and weird 30 years ago.

It's fascinating to see all these old wrestlers. King Kong Bundy actually looked as big as I remember him and he took out his opponent in about a minute. I love those kinds of set-ups where they make the wrestler seem super human. Ricky Steamboat was cool. Brutus the Barber Beefcake is a great heel. So is Greg the Hammer Valentine. I love Jimmy Hart and Bobby Heenan as the heel managers, I've always cheered the villains on. Great to see old Gorilla Moonsoon and Jesse The Governor Ventura as commentators.

It's funny to see a bunch of Wrestlers who's names I recognize but don't remember seeing before. Tito Santana, The Iron Sheik and Nikolai Volkov, Big John Stud. They really play off the old gimmicks like The Iron Shiek and Volkov being anti-USA, etc. It's great to see how much the audience gets into it.

I don't remember women's wrestling being a part of WWF but there it is. I have no idea about who the women were but it was great to see Cindy Lauper as a manager. I had no idea she was involved at one point.

Great to see Mr T wrestling with Hulk Hogan as well. Mr. T could easily pass as a professional wrestler.

This has to have been the high point of pop culture at the time. Muhammed Ali as a referee? Fucking Liberace of all people showed up to do a musical dance?! How crazy is that? They did the Can Can in the ring for god's sake! Rody Piper accompanied by a band playing bagpipes? The crowd going nuts when Hulk Hogans theme plays? Man I love the pageantry of this show!

On to Wrestlemania 2... They're opening the damn thing with Ray Charles singing some kind of American Anthem with montages of American culture.

[acesn8s]

Wait till 3, Ricky Steamboat vs Macho Man.

[Aptorian]

Andorion, on 13 March 2016 - 09:12 AM, said:

I used to watch it when Evolution was still a thing, Cena and Lesnar were atarting off and RVD was popular. Not at all recently. My brother is super into it though

Never really liked what I've seen of Cena and Lesnar but I assume it has to do with me not knowing about their history.

Gorefest, on 13 March 2016 - 12:46 PM, said:

Yeah, my wife and I are massively into it. We visit all the televised shows when they come to the UK. Going to Raw and Smackdown in London in April and we got some Daniel Bryan appreciation T-shirts for the occasion (Smackdown London apparently is one of the upcoming DB appreciation nights).

Big into NXT as well, it has really revitalised the whole thing.

I've noticed that there are a ton of names for different shows or events. Are they all relevant or are there some that I should pay specific attention to?

Gorefest, on 13 March 2016 - 12:59 PM, said:

Apt, on 13 March 2016 - 08:59 AM, said:

I remembered that WWE has launched an internet subscription that gives access to Pay Per View and their archives. This thing is crazy. It's basically, as far as I can tell, the entire collected work of WWF, WCW, ECW and probably more.

It is awesome. Apart from the things you mentioned it also has lots of original content. All the Stonecold podcasts, breaking ground, legend's house, table for three, Monday night wars, etc. If you are into it, it is definitely worth the money. Just for the PPVs alone it is worth it. It also streams NXT, which is their revamped developmental branch (used to be FCW). Some amazing talent coming out of there, like the former Shield, the Wyatt's, Neville, two of the New Day lads, a wave of actually good women wrestlers, etc.

There seems to be an overflow of content available. I can't really imagine consuming all that but I imagine they make a little something for everyone.

I do like the various podcasts though. It's fun to listen to the old war stories from back in the day.

acesn8s, on 13 March 2016 - 02:56 PM, said:

Wait till 3, Ricky Steamboat vs Macho Man.

I'm watching a boxing match between Mr T and Roddy Piper right now. It's god damn glorious.

[Aptorian]

Briar King, on 13 March 2016 - 05:01 PM, said:

I watched in 80's no more

Buy a subscription and join the darkside. The first month is free!

In other news:

I just watched the worst best match I have ever seen. Adrian Adonis vs Uncle Elmer.

This is Adrian Adonis



He is basically just a giant fat man with make-up who wears a dress and acts like a coked up drag queen. Now this Uncle Elmer character was perhaps even worse, just an old fat tall guy in suspenders, but at least he was sort of presentable. Adonis looked like a garbage truck crashed into a make-up factory. The match basically consisted of Uncle Elmer just bashing Adonis around the ring for 5 minutes and then Adonis somehow managed to body slam Elmer and win.

That was the least athletic thing I have ever seen and yet I want to see more of this crazy bastard.

This post has been edited by Apt: 13 March 2016 - 05:07 PM

[worry]

Pretty sure Uncle Elmer (the character) was related to Hillbilly Jim and a few others, but Hillbilly Jim was the only breakout star out of them.

I stopped watching wrestling (except incidentally through friends, or checking out crazier stuff online) before even The Rock and Stone Cold got big, but I do remember some of Wrestlemania 3 quite vividly. Macho vs Ricky was great. Bundy and two dwarfs vs Hillbilly Jim and two dwarfs was insane. Honky Tonk Man vs Jake the Snake. And of course Hulk vs Andre.

[Gorefest]

Apt, on 13 March 2016 - 03:18 PM, said:

I've noticed that there are a ton of names for different shows or events. Are they all relevant or are there some that I should pay specific attention to?

Raw is still the flagship show, every Monday night. Smackdown is its little brother and used to be every Friday but recently moved to Thursday. You can easily skip it, as it is often just rehashing Raw events and putting on some filler matches for viewers of a different network. Neither shows are on the WWE network though, as they are (still) run on cable tv.
There are currently about 13 ppv events per year. Wrestlemania obviously is the big one, the WWE's Superbowl so to speak. Other big ones are Summerslam, royal Rumble, survivor series, Money in the Bank, Hell in a Cell and TLC (tables, ladders, chairs). All ppvs are available on the Network.
NXT is the developmental program, where new talent gets a chance to show themselves. They grew out of the old florida Championship wrestling, but it is now an amazing platform in its own right. They do a one hour show once per week and those are on the Network as well.

This post has been edited by Gorefest: 13 March 2016 - 08:46 PM

[Aptorian]

Zoolanderis Derake, on 13 March 2016 - 08:39 PM, said:

Pretty sure Uncle Elmer (the character) was related to Hillbilly Jim and a few others, but Hillbilly Jim was the only breakout star out of them.

I stopped watching wrestling (except incidentally through friends, or checking out crazier stuff online) before even The Rock and Stone Cold got big, but I do remember some of Wrestlemania 3 quite vividly. Macho vs Ricky was great. Bundy and two dwarfs vs Hillbilly Jim and two dwarfs was insane. Honky Tonk Man vs Jake the Snake. And of course Hulk vs Andre.

Yeah, I saw another match where Elmer was part of some redneck collective. Like you say, the only actually impressive, capable looking wrestler among them was Hillbilly Jim.

Watched WM3 last night. A lot of great matches in that one.

With the recent resurgence for Macho Man affection, I think people completely forget that Macho Man was a heel. That whole Miss Elizabeth angle where he's treating her like he owns her sort of just makes him completely unappealing. Made even weirder by some old Wrestler called "The Animal" lusting after her and trying to steal her.

I looked Miss Elizabeth up and it turns out that she died of a pill and alcohol combination when she was in an abusive relationship with Lex Luger. Reading her and Lex Lugers wikipedia pages just makes you realise how fucked up most of these wrestlers lives were and in some cases remain.

I was really impressed with this big black wrestler called Junk Yard Dog. I was wondering what happened to him since he seemed like a crowd favorite. Turns out the dude fell asleep at the wheel after attending his daughters graduation and died in a car crash.

Then I looked up Jake the Snake Roberts and found out his life is pretty much fucked up by alcohol and drugs. He even let his snake starve to death in a garage.

Reading Wrestler back stories is like participating in the depression olympics.

Gorefest, on 13 March 2016 - 08:46 PM, said:

Apt, on 13 March 2016 - 03:18 PM, said:

I've noticed that there are a ton of names for different shows or events. Are they all relevant or are there some that I should pay specific attention to?

Raw is still the flagship show, every Monday night. Smackdown is its little brother and used to be every Friday but recently moved to Thursday. You can easily skip it, as it is often just rehashing Raw events and putting on some filler matches for viewers of a different network. Neither shows are on the WWE network though, as they are (still) run on cable tv.

That's annoying. I thought I would be able to follow the regular programs via their network. Then again I guess it makes sense they wouldn't sell that subscription so cheap.

Still there's a couple thousand hours of wrestling on the network. Just watching main events is going to keep me busy until summer.

Gorefest, on 13 March 2016 - 08:46 PM, said:

There are currently about 13 ppv events per year. Wrestlemania obviously is the big one, the WWE's Superbowl so to speak. Other big ones are Summerslam, royal Rumble, survivor series, Money in the Bank, Hell in a Cell and TLC (tables, ladders, chairs). All ppvs are available on the Network.
NXT is the developmental program, where new talent gets a chance to show themselves. They grew out of the old florida Championship wrestling, but it is now an amazing platform in its own right. They do a one hour show once per week and those are on the Network as well.

Yeah, the list of stuff I want to see is slowly growing. Right now I am just following the big shows by year. So when I get to 1988 I reckon I have to watch Royal Rumble, Wrestlemania, Summer Slam and Survivor Series.

It was sort of annoying watching the first years and not knowing the backstories but subsequent years seem better at recapping what happened in earlier shows.

[acesn8s]

Chris Benoit

[Aptorian]

Yeah I remember. A few year before that Eddie Gurero died as well.

https://en.wikipedia..._Guerrero#Death

I remember me and a couple of buddies at the bar in Uni would shout his tagline "I lie! I steal! I cheat!" every time we were playing table football or beer crocket.

[Gorefest]

Yeah, there are some very sad stories. Owen Hart. Eddie. Benoit. Razor Ramon. Brian Pillman. Dynamite Kid. Most of the Von Erichs. Bruiser Brody. The list goes on and on.

Jake the Snake and Razor Ramon have turned their lives around completely though, helped in no small part by Diamond Dallas Page. They were both inducted into the WWE Hall of Fame in the past few years. Macho Man finally got inducted posthumously as well.

Ultimate Warrior got inducted two years ago, three days before he died of a heart attack. Very surreal, as he had just made a very heartfelt and rather bizarre speech on Raw a few hours earlier that suddenly got a whole new emotional load to it.

[Bulwyf]

Let us know when you get to Brutus the Barber Beefcake and Razor Ramone!
Oh, and the Demolition.
heh, and the Hulk Hogan vs Zeus, no holds barred.
...and Jake the Snake Roberts!

ah memories

This post has been edited by Bulwyf: 14 March 2016 - 08:52 PM

[worry]

If you haven't seen it, check out the doc Beyond the Mat. It must be 15 years old by now but it's a very nice peek at the highs and lows of the wrestling life (Jake the Snake and Mick Foley are two of the prominent focuses, and both very eloquent representatives). Without it I'm not sure a movie like The Wrestler would have been made. Also yeah, I didn't get into WCW much over the years but DDP's post-wrestling story is actually pretty darn cool.

[Shinrei]

Sexy Japanese ladies in one piece swimsuits is the only wrestling worth watching.

Sure, they're terrible at wrestling, but that's hardly the point.

[Gorefest]

Shinrei, on 15 March 2016 - 11:17 AM, said:

Sure, they're terrible at wrestling, but that's hardly the point.

You clearly haven't seen Kana / Asuka yet?

[Gorefest]

You have to appreciate it for what it is: sports entertainment. Sure, all the matches are rigged and the outcome is predetermined. But the ability and athleticism on display is a match to any hardcore sports event around, the wrestlers are supreme athletes (there are even former olympic champions and top level football players etc among them) and on top of that it's at times a highly entertaining storybook.

[Aptorian]

Might as well post this in here:

Hulk Hogan awarded 115 million dollars in his lawsuit against Gawker:

http://arstechnica.c...ipe-out-gawker/

Quote

$115 million verdict in Hulk Hogan sex-tape lawsuit could wipe out Gawker
Hogan's lawyer: Gawker editor was "playing God" with my client's privacy.

A Florida jury today ordered Gawker Media to pay $115 million for publishing a sex tape showing Terry Bollea, also known as Hulk Hogan, having sex with his friend's wife.

The stunning sum, which may have punitive damages added to it, is a life-threatening event for the New York-based network of news and gossip sites. Gawker media was one of the first successful, large digital-only news companies. The final sum is even more than the $100 million Bollea was seeking. Bollea also sued Gawker founder Nick Denton and former editor Albert Daulerio, and the jury found those two men personally liable as well.

The sex tape was made about a decade ago, during a period in which the professional wrestler Hogan testified that he was going through a difficult phase with his then-wife. Todd Clem, a Florida radio personality who later legally changed his name to Bubba the Love Sponge, encouraged Hogan to sleep with his wife Heather.

In 2012, Bollea sued Clem, saying he didn't know Clem had filmed him. Clem has made conflicting statements about whether Bollea knew about the taping. Clem settled the lawsuit, reportedly for $5,000. That left Gawker, Denton, and Daulerio as the targets of Bollea's wrath. He sued them for $100 million in damages and the case when to trial in St. Petersburg, Florida on March 7.

The case raises issues about the limits of the First Amendment in the digital age. Gawker argued that it had a legitimate news reason to publish the tape, since Bollea had talked about his sex life—specifically about sleeping with Clem's wife—in numerous venues.

Bollea's reputation took a huge hit last year, and he got fired from his job at World Wrestling Entertainment. That outcome wasn't fallout from the Gawker article, however. In a section of the sex tape that could be described as "pillow talk" (which wasn't published by Gawker), Bollea went on a racist diatribe. He repeatedly used the N-word and other racial insults, expressing disappointment that his daughter was in a relationship with a black man. The racial epithets were leaked by other news sites, including Radar Online and the National Enquirer.

Other news sites posted stills from the tape, but only Gawker posted video. They showed one minute and 41 seconds of the tape, which included just nine seconds of sexual content. The company says it made about $11,000 from the post, countering assertions by Bollea attorneys that it was worth hundreds of thousands of dollars.

"What's disturbing about Gawker isn't what they do in a vacuum," Bollea lawyer Kenneth Turkel said during closing arguments. "It's how proud they are of it." Denton was "playing God over Bollea’s right to privacy," he added.

Bollea says he still feels humiliated over the tape's publication. Gawker editors said the publication of the tape, and accompanying essay, was a commentary about celebrity sex tapes.

“He’s talked about his sex life, how big his penis is, and when he talks about his penis it’s to promote his daughter’s singing career," said Gawker's attorney Michael Sullivan. "He’s discussed his sexual encounters. Now he tells you this was the Hulk Hogan character."

Gawker has a right to publish news stories, even ones with objectionable content, Sullivan told the jury.

"If they can make a claim like this, the Internet as we know it will cease to exist," Sullivan said.

As the case went to the jury, Gawker Media released a statement saying that they expect an appeals court will need to resolve the case. It reads in part:

We're disappointed the jury was unable to see key evidence and hear testimony from the most important witness... Hulk Hogan's best friend Bubba the Love Sponge—who made the tape and offered up his wife in the first place—originally told his radio listeners that Hulk Hogan knew he was being taped. The jury was only able to hear a questionable version of events. Bubba should have been required to appear in court and explain what really happened.

Gawker owns several other popular online news sites, including the gadget site Gizmodo, Lifehacker, Deadspin, Kotaku, Jezebel, and Jalopnik. The company employs about 250 people and has been majority-owned by Denton since it was founded. He recently took outside investment for the first time to be able to pay for this litigation and possible damages.

I hope to Wrestling Jesus that this utterly cripples the Gawker network. The internet would be a better place if that tumor dies.

In other news:

I am up to around Wrestlemania 5 now.

I find Hulk Hogans character sort of strange. If you look at him critically and listen to the things he say, he comes off extremely self absorbed. That whole standing in the ring, listening, pointing, flexing, etc. There's something slightly... infuriating about him. I think I would have hated Hogan back in the day if I wasn't a kid watching Wrestling.

Also watching Andre the Giant in the ring just seems sad. I don't know how well he did before televises Wrestling, but from Wrestlemania 1 and forward, looking at him, he was in no shape to wrestle. He can barely walk or even stand. He's constantly holding a rope or standing a corner because he can't walk properly on his own. Doing just small fights leaves him out of breath and kayfabe/in reality looking in visible pain. Knowing about his condition it just seems awful.

The problem is also that the actual fights with him are so boring. He slaps people, chokes people, pushes people, etc. and that's about it. He works best standing outside the ring looking menacing or shooting promos but in ring it's pretty disappointing.

This post has been edited by Apt: 19 March 2016 - 07:23 AM