[Grumble]

Your guilty Tom just admit it and take your punishment !

[Daser]

No matter what sport i have played i have always chosen every single item i use after what i like best.

Why is anyone surprised that balls on patriots hometurf are to the liking of the hometeams QB. This is just stupid i am sure every team does this.

If you want it any different then use officials or umpires to be responsible for the gameballs no matter what stadium. It is an easy rulechange, so it shouldnt be hard to implement.

Tom Brady is just the scapegoat and no matter what he does he cant win. He just have to wait this shitstorm out.

[HoosierDaddy]

Daser, on 29 July 2015 - 08:49 PM, said:

No matter what sport i have played i have always chosen every single item i use after what i like best.

Why is anyone surprised that balls on patriots hometurf are to the liking of the hometeams QB. This is just stupid i am sure every team does this.

If you want it any different then use officials or umpires to be responsible for the gameballs no matter what stadium. It is an easy rulechange, so it shouldnt be hard to implement.

Tom Brady is just the scapegoat and no matter what he does he cant win. He just have to wait this shitstorm out.

That's the most ignorant fucking opinion I've ever heard. Read anything about the subject before commenting. This'd be like an American bitching about offsides in a soccer game with no idea of what offside is.

[Tapper]

Well, soccer is the anti-football in this sense, as leagues and tournaments use balls supplied by a single apparel-sponsor.

There is way less work involved in making them game-ready (I think I read a long-read somewhere in the aftermath of DeflateGate about the ball-people who worked for NYG. It was staggering how much was required to produce 1 ball a QB likes for on the field).

Even so, the whole home/travel ball use that partly lead to the inequality in pressure between home team and visitor is a fairly recent rule, iirc.

However, even if Ballghazi does punish the correct people and team (afawk, they are the only team caught red-handed), the procedure leading to it is littered with flaws and oddities. Not the least of which is Goodell handling the appeal against his own verdict.

[Daser]

HoosierDaddy, on 29 July 2015 - 09:01 PM, said:

Daser, on 29 July 2015 - 08:49 PM, said:

No matter what sport i have played i have always chosen every single item i use after what i like best.

Why is anyone surprised that balls on patriots hometurf are to the liking of the hometeams QB. This is just stupid i am sure every team does this.

If you want it any different then use officials or umpires to be responsible for the gameballs no matter what stadium. It is an easy rulechange, so it shouldnt be hard to implement.

Tom Brady is just the scapegoat and no matter what he does he cant win. He just have to wait this shitstorm out.

That's the most ignorant fucking opinion I've ever heard. Read anything about the subject before commenting. This'd be like an American bitching about offsides in a soccer game with no idea of what offside is.

Do you have some info that would make us Euros understand this wierd sport or are you just a butthurt Colts fan?

[HoosierDaddy]

Notice I said "ignorant" and not stupid. I don't think you are stupid, but clearly ignorant of the rules of the game.

There are rules to gauge PSI in game balls, and they are checked by officials every game. Here, after having checked them, the PSI was altered. Someone tipped off the Colts that his was going on, thus the current clusterfuck.

Wouldn't have mattered in the AFCCG as the Pats straight up destroyed the Colts. Might have mattered against the Ravens, though. Who knows how long this has been going on. Fumble statistics are a huge indicator though. Pats have an historic low fumble percentage starting about 5 years ago....

[Daser]

Okay HD that was a much better answer.

I just dont understand why you think only Patriots does this. Did you know that they checked all 12 Patriots balls from that game but only 4 of Colts, btw 3 of the 4 Colts gameballs where to low. So did A. Luck do it or did he just not notice?

I think the first complaint about this is more than 20 years old and was against Raiders, so this isnt something new.

A. Rodgers is known for loving really hard pumped gameballs. How does everybody know this if it isnt something they control in Green Bay.

Several QBs has said this is common including that clusterfuck Matt Leinart my Cardinals drafted. So my own club probarly isnt innocent of this at least in the past if not now.


My point still is the same as in the first post. This is a very minor issue that alot of clubs/QBs are guilty of and for some reason it is the Patriots/Brady that has to suffer for it. And some very easy rule changes can make this a non issue.

[Tiste Simeon]

NFL: Where allegedly slightly deflating a ball is "bringing the game unto disrepute" but beating up your fiancee is something to be ignored until the media furore has died down.

[Nevyn]

If he beat up his fiancee on the field during a game it would bring the game into disrepute.

There is a criminal justice system to protect the fiancee, actual laws and actual police and actual courts. The NFL tacking on punishment is simply about PR, which means they also have to collectively bargain their rights to even do anything about it.

So your comparison is like an employee complaining that he got fired for allegedly embezzling "a few hundred dollars" when Larry the wife beater still has a job.

By all means, we can argue about what Brady did or did not do. We can argue about whether there should even be a rule. We can argue about whether the standard for evidence is high enough, whether it is met. We can argue whether the punishment is appropriate.

But can we please stop comparing this to punishments under the personal conduct policy. The personal conduct policy exists because these are high profile athletes and their misdeeds are very visible. If the commissioner ignored these types of acts, the owners would get far more pressure to cut ties with the drunks and addicts and wifebeaters and brawlers and dogfighters. Giving them a league suspension lets the league look like it cares and is doing something. It is PR (and PR they handled very badly in the last year).

Those suspensions should never be viewed as the entire consequence of the crime, nor of the punishment befitting the crime. That's what the legal system is for.

On the other hand, cheating (whether steroids or ball tampering or really anything else) is entirely within the realm of the league. They need to enforce it so people believe their games are above board and fair. And their punishments are the only punishments those people are subject to.

This post has been edited by Nevyn: 31 July 2015 - 05:58 PM

[Binder of Demons]

Well that was some smackdown of a verdict from Judge Berman. Good luck appealing that one Goodell.

And now back to football.

[Shinrei]

The bad thing is we have set a precedent for taking league issues outside of the league and into a court. How can the league enforce its rules?

[HoosierDaddy]

I still want to punch him in the face. No real reasons, I just hate him for always beating my team. And, also he's a douche of the highest caliber.

[Vengeance]

Shinrei, on 04 September 2015 - 11:47 PM, said:

The bad thing is we have set a precedent for taking league issues outside of the league and into a court. How can the league enforce its rules?

That was the problem. The league didn't gave any rules for that, and Goodall didn't follow any of the guidelines of the player contract.

[Tiste Simeon]

Nevyn, on 31 July 2015 - 05:51 PM, said:

If he beat up his fiancee on the field during a game it would bring the game into disrepute.

There is a criminal justice system to protect the fiancee, actual laws and actual police and actual courts. The NFL tacking on punishment is simply about PR, which means they also have to collectively bargain their rights to even do anything about it.

So your comparison is like an employee complaining that he got fired for allegedly embezzling "a few hundred dollars" when Larry the wife beater still has a job.

By all means, we can argue about what Brady did or did not do. We can argue about whether there should even be a rule. We can argue about whether the standard for evidence is high enough, whether it is met. We can argue whether the punishment is appropriate.

But can we please stop comparing this to punishments under the personal conduct policy. The personal conduct policy exists because these are high profile athletes and their misdeeds are very visible. If the commissioner ignored these types of acts, the owners would get far more pressure to cut ties with the drunks and addicts and wifebeaters and brawlers and dogfighters. Giving them a league suspension lets the league look like it cares and is doing something. It is PR (and PR they handled very badly in the last year).

Those suspensions should never be viewed as the entire consequence of the crime, nor of the punishment befitting the crime. That's what the legal system is for.

On the other hand, cheating (whether steroids or ball tampering or really anything else) is entirely within the realm of the league. They need to enforce it so people believe their games are above board and fair. And their punishments are the only punishments those people are subject to.

Irrelevant. The league need to say "we abhor this action so much that on top of whatever the police do, you guys aren't playing football again."

This post has been edited by Tiste Simeon: 05 September 2015 - 04:29 PM

[Gnaw]

Shinrei, on 04 September 2015 - 11:47 PM, said:

The bad thing is we have set a precedent for taking league issues outside of the league and into a court. How can the league enforce its rules?

The Supreme Court rejected the NFL's immunity to antitrust laws 5 years ago over an apparel contract. As that trickles down I suspect they're going to be in court more and more over all sorts of things.

If anyone thinks that the league and owners give a shit about players, I strongly suggest reading this 6 year old article about concussions.

http://www.gq.com/st...ory-concussions

I came across it a few days ago following a link from an article about the upcoming Will Smith movie and Sony's hacked email WikiLeaks data dump. I grew up in Denver in the 70s and remember the games against the Steelers being second only to those of the Raiders for sheer ferocity. Lambert and Ham stopping drives inside the 10 multiple times. Stallworth, Swann, and Harris turning Bradshaw's ridiculously poor throws into stunning gains. Reading what happened to Mike Webster was heartbreaking.

[Grumble]

In what other job would you be allowed to break rules .... cheat in this case ..... but get let off because your employer didn't inform you that your particular form of rule breaking was punishable by a suspension.

Guilty as hell ..... walked on a technicality.

The League didn't show me their evidence ... boo hoo ... I on the other hand destroyed mine !!!

Total disgrace ..... has ruined the integrity of the sport.

[Tapper]

Grumble, on 06 September 2015 - 07:08 PM, said:

In what other job would you be allowed to break rules .... cheat in this case ..... but get let off because your employer didn't inform you that your particular form of rule breaking was punishable by a suspension.

Guilty as hell ..... walked on a technicality.

The League didn't show me their evidence ... boo hoo ... I on the other hand destroyed mine !!!

Total disgrace ..... has ruined the integrity of the sport.

What integrity? The NFL has no credibility whatsoever and exists as an organisation for the profit of 32 owners. The fact is that the NFL is singularly incompetent at keeping clear rules and a clean house, cannot anticipate public reaction, gets that wrong every single time, and then overcompensates, partly by policy decided on the spot, all the while denying or at the least refusing the further research the health and safety risks to the teams employees.

As for Brady: there is a protocol for tampering by players. It's iirc a 25.000 dollar fine (which is less than Marshawn Lynch pays for wearing the wrong brand of footwear during games - illustrating the League's priority of pleasing the sponsors over a clear and clean game once more). It was the League's choice not to pursue that. Instead, I think the four game non-cooperation punishment they gave him was under the designator of a failure to uphold the agreement for head coaches and team owners, and was justified by comparing it to PED use. To the first, Brady isn't a signed partner and cannot be held accountable. The second is clearly bollocks.
TBrady could volunteer the information he withheld and chose not to (and went a step further in a rather stupid way that does little for his credibility), but no matter what article you read about Deflategate, everyone agrees that Brady could never be required to hand over his texts and mail as things stand.

.

[Grumble]

I guess the integrity I'm thinking of is mine and yours.

I just want to know that the game I love watching is being played fairly and that the contest is an even one decided by the better team on the day.

I think too many things have happened around the Patriots organisation now, over the years, for me to be sure that they are sticking to the rules.

[Tiste Simeon]

Regardless, the Pats were still better than the Seahawks and that's what matters more to me.

[Tapper]

Grumble, on 06 September 2015 - 08:08 PM, said:

I guess the integrity I'm thinking of is mine and yours.

I just want to know that the game I love watching is being played fairly and that the contest is an even one decided by the better team on the day.

I think too many things have happened around the Patriots organisation now, over the years, for me to be sure that they are sticking to the rules.

Oh, they're definitely one of the least sporting franchises - The Patriot Way that quite some sports writers worshipped and heralded as an example for all also was exposed as bullshit with the whole Hernandez affair. At the same time, I can't help but admire the way Belichick manages his roster and adapts his playbook and tactics to each and every opponent.