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A Question About Kruppe and Just Who Is More Dangerous than Who A few questions after re-reading GOTM

#1 User is offline   Dr. Philodox 

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Posted 25 July 2015 - 06:52 PM

Hello all,

I'll get right to it . Kruppe suspects that there is something strange about the road-workers aka the Bridgeburners and even drops a hint to Baruk, which is lost on him. One of them even follows Kruppe through the city and he is aware of this. What measures does he take against those whom he believes to be potential spies?

I am also a bit muddled over just who is the big cheese in this novel.
  • Rake is unsure if he can best Raest.
  • Lorn believes that if Raest got hold of his finnest he would be an equal to Rake.
  • Tayschrenn has somehow taken possession of a demon lord whom Rake believes may be able to best him. How did Tayschrenn bend such a being to his command?
  • K'rul tells Raest that Tool is the most powerful being in the world

It was a fantastic book, although I did not care for the rather lengthy extracts that appeared at the beginning of each book
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#2 User is offline   Felisin Fatter 

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Posted 26 July 2015 - 01:27 PM

Kruppe is aware of a lot. I think he would have acted if he had to, but he prefers to wait and see?
1. Rake probably just can't be sure, because of insufficient information. Also, Rake cares about collateral damage while Raest does not. Also, it took a giant ritual to bury Raest last time, Rake might not have the resources or time for that.
2. Could be true, no way to know really. I'd say with the finnest Raest could unleash the kind of sorcery that destroys (much of) the world, which Rake would probably count as a loss even if he personally survived.
3. Not sure if Tayschrenn himself can summon demons (he uses Thyr, right?). My guess is: Kellanved could and he left a few rady to use 'demon potions' in the imperial vault. Menaing they're a limited imperial resource that Tayschrenn has access to. But that's just a guess.
4. Could you quote that passage? My first thought is that K'rul is talking more metaphorically, or about something other than combat. Not that Tool is a weakling by any means.

And the extracts are much more interesting on a reread :(
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#3 User is offline   Andorion 

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Posted 26 July 2015 - 02:21 PM

View PostEdmond Leonard, on 25 July 2015 - 06:52 PM, said:

Hello all,

I'll get right to it . Kruppe suspects that there is something strange about the road-workers aka the Bridgeburners and even drops a hint to Baruk, which is lost on him. One of them even follows Kruppe through the city and he is aware of this. What measures does he take against those whom he believes to be potential spies?

I am also a bit muddled over just who is the big cheese in this novel.
  • Rake is unsure if he can best Raest.
  • Lorn believes that if Raest got hold of his finnest he would be an equal to Rake.
  • Tayschrenn has somehow taken possession of a demon lord whom Rake believes may be able to best him. How did Tayschrenn bend such a being to his command?
  • K'rul tells Raest that Tool is the most powerful being in the world

It was a fantastic book, although I did not care for the rather lengthy extracts that appeared at the beginning of each book


There isn't really a big cheese as such, though Rake comes close with that sword. There are a number of very powerful players each of whom could be devastating in his own right.

Tool is not the most powerful, though he is on the top 20 or so, probably.

Tayschrenn is an extremely powerful mage with a huge amount of knowledge. Summoning and trapping demons is not just dependent on power but also intelligence.
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#4 User is offline   Dr. Philodox 

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Posted 26 July 2015 - 03:10 PM

View PostFelisin Fatter, on 26 July 2015 - 01:27 PM, said:

Kruppe is aware of a lot. I think he would have acted if he had to, but he prefers to wait and see?
1. Rake probably just can't be sure, because of insufficient information. Also, Rake cares about collateral damage while Raest does not. Also, it took a giant ritual to bury Raest last time, Rake might not have the resources or time for that.
2. Could be true, no way to know really. I'd say with the finnest Raest could unleash the kind of sorcery that destroys (much of) the world, which Rake would probably count as a loss even if he personally survived.
3. Not sure if Tayschrenn himself can summon demons (he uses Thyr, right?). My guess is: Kellanved could and he left a few rady to use 'demon potions' in the imperial vault. Menaing they're a limited imperial resource that Tayschrenn has access to. But that's just a guess.
4. Could you quote that passage? My first thought is that K'rul is talking more metaphorically, or about something other than combat. Not that Tool is a weakling by any means.

And the extracts are much more interesting on a reread :(

1. Fair enough :(, although I am surprised that he did not follow up on the road workers activities and have his agents investigate it a bit more. He took quite a risk there.
2.Makes sense
3. I assumed that Tayschrenn was behind the summoning because he fell into a coma after the Demon Lord was killed. Also, there was a scene in which a scout was captured by Rake (I believe) and returned to Baruk. This demon understood that if he was more powerful than his master he could break free. I envisaged Tayschrenn and Tattersail as being similar in abilities as she was also offered the position of Empire Mage. She could just about take a charge from a Hound of Shadow and was spent, so I couldn't see Tayschrenn being dominant over the 12 foot monstrosity Rake faced. Its possible that there is more than one way to skin a cat if you are intelligent enough, however
4. "As I said, things have changed," K'rul said quietly. "You have a choice, Raest. Onos T'oolan can destroy you. You have no understanding of what his title of Sword signifies - he is without equal in this world." Perhaps he is referring to a special ability of Tool which is not revealed in this book.

This post has been edited by Edmond Leonard: 26 July 2015 - 03:11 PM

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#5 User is offline   theocean 

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Posted 26 July 2015 - 03:47 PM

K'rul has been gone a long time. He may BELIEVE that Onos is unequeled, but that is his opinion.



RAFO a lot more about Tay.
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#6 User is offline   Felisin Fatter 

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Posted 26 July 2015 - 06:11 PM

Perhaps Tool has some power that specifically would work against Raest, it's certainly possible. Or K'rul is bluffing and just wants Raest to believe that. Or, theocean is right and K'rul's intel is outdated.
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#7 User is offline   Puck 

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Posted 27 July 2015 - 08:57 AM

First off, it's not like Kruppe can reveal himself as the Eel to just anybody. As the Eel he's an adversary as far as the council is concerned, and also cannot reveal himself to Baruk directly, so all he can do is tip Baruk off to possible dangers. At the same time, he has to take into account that possible spies of the empire are just as capable as he is (refer to the Claw's reputation). He also cannot get involved directly, as that is not his forté - his abilities are of the passive/behind the scenes sort (unless pastries are involved). So he did what he could and trusted in those people for whom he knew the safety of the city to be of high value.

Furthermore, as Andorion already pointed out, there's no "big cheese" as such. There are various powers involved, as well as points of view and assertions/assessments of the power of others. There's the 'slam a warren down your throat' kind of powers (e.g. Raest) and the 'being clever and prepared' kind of powers. Tayschrenn probably did not wake up one day and decide to take a stroll and catch himself a demon lord on the way. Instead, he probably took time to prepare carefully and catch the demon lord unawares, to trap it. Like Tattersail vs. the Hound Tayschrenn might not have been a huge threat to the demon lord in a direct confrantation, though.

Then there are those who care about collateral damage (Anomander Rake) and those who don't give a damn (Raest, again). So whatever massive, world-destroying kawoosh Rake may be able to unleash, he'd never do so in the midst of the continent's most populated city. Especially one which could go up like factory of Moranth munitions, what with all the explosive gas underneath it. Hence why Rake chooses to fight the demon lord one on one while sending the dragons to battle Raest in the hills outside the city. Considering Raest holds up quite well to them without his Finnest, there's no telling what he could've done when in possession of it.

One also has to take into account that K'rul's been cut off from the current gossip for a few millennia at the least. Way back when, Tool may in fact have been "without equal", but then K'rul doesn't specify at what. Fighting? Well, yeah, probably. There's still a few books to find out more about that. Also, consider that, again, like Rake, not everyone goes around professing their martial prowess. Tool is much more overt about that than Rake is, for example, so anyone looking on from the sidelines would naturally assume Tool to be better.

What it comes down to is opinion and motivation and circumstances, and not every statement made has to be the absolute final word on a subject.
Puck was not birthed, she was cleaved from a lava flow and shaped by a fierce god's hands. - [worry]
Ninja Puck, Ninja Puck, really doesn't give a fuck..? - [King Lear]
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#8 User is offline   Dr. Philodox 

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Posted 31 July 2015 - 10:07 AM

Thanks for the responses, they did clear up my questions. I much prefer the passages at the start of each book in DHG :(
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