[hopefullyconfused]

I just finished Reaper's Gale, which seems to include the culmination of Trull and Onrack's relationship. The trouble is (as I've found with many of the turns in these books) I feel like I have completely missed the underlying reasons for the intensity between their relationship. It seems like every important narrative turn on their journey comes with intensely emotional affectations between the two of them that I frankly don't understand. Beyond the bond that would come from having traveled so far together, I really don't see the basis for the intensity of their friendship. Seems like there were lots of wistful glances and knowing exchanges between two friends who truly get eachother, but I really didn't pick up on anything other than epic battles they shared.

It is clear that they each perceive in the other something that speaks to them, but I've never really been able to understand what it is. I think this comes in part from me not understanding a lot of the back story with the T'lan Imass, but it sure does throw me for a loop. And it makes me feel like a lot of the emotional wind was taken of the sails on their journey. I wanted to feel what I think the author was trying to get me to feel, but I just lacked the information to get there.

[worry]

They're best friends.

[hopefullyconfused]

worry, on 21 April 2015 - 01:01 AM, said:

They're best friends.

I guess I would say that I knew that, but based on my reading, I didn't understand why I should care. I just assume I missed a lot. Most of the other characters, including Onrack. were pretty affected by the end of the story for Trull. Was wondering what it was that made it so powerful.

[worry]

They just like each other a whole lot. It's okay if you don't like either one, or like them a little, or like them different amounts, or don't get what they see in each other. That's just how it is with most friendships you're not a participant in, I think. I don't know why JLo and Leah Remini are best friends, and of course it eats at me, but I just have to accept I'll never know.

[hopefullyconfused]

worry, on 21 April 2015 - 02:10 AM, said:

They just like each other a whole lot. It's okay if you don't like either one, or like them a little, or like them different amounts, or don't get what they see in each other. That's just how it is with most friendships you're not a participant in, I think. I don't know why JLo and Leah Remini are best friends, and of course it eats at me, but I just have to accept I'll never know.

Ha. I guess they just didn't speak to me as strongly as to eachother. I do respect Trull for how he approached things in MIdnight Tides. It just seemed like there was a lot more there I was supposed to pick up on as a reader. Onrack's background is a little more confusing, so perhaps I just don't have a mastery of the facts sufficient for an emotional response. Or perhaps not.

[Andorion]

Regarding Trull, you could just go with all he has accomplished. He was the only Edur to stand up to Rhulad. He fought Icarium and Silchas Ruin and didn't lose, which is pretty incredible, since one is an unstoppable force of destruction and the other one is an Ascendant. His life went from trauma to trauma and yet he retained his compassion and his essential goodness. Now think of the impact of this on Onrak. Broken, outcast, in Trull he sees anothe rone like him, abandoned by his own people. But Trull never gives up. Ever. To somebody like Onrak, cursed by Tlan immortality, Trull appeals to the best in him. Endurance, tenacity, compassion, love....and then to see something as precious as that so cruelly, callously and meaninglessly killed....tragedy is too lessa word.

[hopefullyconfused]

Andorion, on 21 April 2015 - 02:27 AM, said:

Regarding Trull, you could just go with all he has accomplished. He was the only Edur to stand up to Rhulad. He fought Icarium and Silchas Ruin and didn't lose, which is pretty incredible, since one is an unstoppable force of destruction and the other one is an Ascendant. His life went from trauma to trauma and yet he retained his compassion and his essential goodness. Now think of the impact of this on Onrak. Broken, outcast, in Trull he sees anothe rone like him, abandoned by his own people. But Trull never gives up. Ever. To somebody like Onrak, cursed by Tlan immortality, Trull appeals to the best in him. Endurance, tenacity, compassion, love....and then to see something as precious as that so cruelly, callously and meaninglessly killed....tragedy is too lessa word.

This seems like it's probably right on. I knew these things in a general sense, but I think a lot of the specific events were lost to me by the time I hit the culmination of the narrative arc. This is my problem as a reader, although I do think it's also a general issue with the complexity of the story. So many characters who you don't see for such long periods. It becomes hard to put all the pieces back together once you see them again. It's sort of hard to imagine how anyone gets the proper impact of all the plot elements until the second or third read.

Thanks for clarifying!

[Andorion]

hopefullyconfused, on 21 April 2015 - 02:45 AM, said:

Andorion, on 21 April 2015 - 02:27 AM, said:

Regarding Trull, you could just go with all he has accomplished. He was the only Edur to stand up to Rhulad. He fought Icarium and Silchas Ruin and didn't lose, which is pretty incredible, since one is an unstoppable force of destruction and the other one is an Ascendant. His life went from trauma to trauma and yet he retained his compassion and his essential goodness. Now think of the impact of this on Onrak. Broken, outcast, in Trull he sees anothe rone like him, abandoned by his own people. But Trull never gives up. Ever. To somebody like Onrak, cursed by Tlan immortality, Trull appeals to the best in him. Endurance, tenacity, compassion, love....and then to see something as precious as that so cruelly, callously and meaninglessly killed....tragedy is too lessa word.

This seems like it's probably right on. I knew these things in a general sense, but I think a lot of the specific events were lost to me by the time I hit the culmination of the narrative arc. This is my problem as a reader, although I do think it's also a general issue with the complexity of the story. So many characters who you don't see for such long periods. It becomes hard to put all the pieces back together once you see them again. It's sort of hard to imagine how anyone gets the proper impact of all the plot elements until the second or third read.

Thanks for clarifying!

Oh I understand how tough it is to keep everything together on a first read. I didn't really start getting hit hard until my second read. My first read was a wide-eyed uncomrehending stumble through the series. My second read was extremely fulfilling, an emotional journey as all the differnt things came together and made their impact. My third read, which is current, is so far at least a cooler, detached read aimed at finding and piecing together elusive aspects of the books.

[Abyss]

I agree with the upthread posts, but also...Back in HoC,...Onrack saves Trull at the wall in the Nascent, even tho he didn't have to....Onrack tries to saveTrull from the Liosan... Trull in turn returns to help him....rather than allow the other Imass to use Trull for their gate ritual, Onrack breaks the ritual, severs himself from the Ritual of Tellan and bonds with Trull.
And finally, when Onrack senses when the whirlwind goddess, his ex wife, dies, he cannotcry for her or even truly feel the loss, so Trull does it for him, leading the Bonecaster to tell Onrack he doesn't deserve Trull.
The they spend a few months together fighting off the Letherii Edur assault, saving each other's lives a few dozen times a day or so as seen in TB.
So by the time RG rolls around, they're damn close.

[worry]

Plus the nature of Imass is to feel deeply, so Onrack goes from numb to somewhat rekindled (by Trull's friendship over time) to absolute blaze of feelings (by returning to life in the Refugium).

[Puck]

worry, on 21 April 2015 - 04:44 AM, said:

Plus the nature of Imass is to feel deeply, so Onrack goes from numb to somewhat rekindled (by Trull's friendship over time) to absolute blaze of feelings (by returning to life in the Refugium).

That, and at the same time, Trull is inclined to deep feelings naturally as well, just look at how he reacts to Onrack's ex-wife's death and then each time anything emotional happens. That's possibly due in part to the trauma he went through in MT, but it also bonds him further to Onrack.

And there's also the way he naturally is, honest, open and compassionate to others and not asking anything in return. He takes people as they are and cherishes them. That is why, for example, QB and Hedge are also so stricken when he is killed. There's a passage in RG where Hedge tries to not develop friendship towards Trull but cannot help it and admits how he'd do anything just to see Trull smile at him.

Also, there's the scene at the end of HoC, which Abyss already mentioned, when Onrack perceives his ex-wife's death, but Trull is the one who crys. And Monok Ochem asks why he is crying and Trull says it's because Onrack cannot.

Also, also, I think Trull enjoys Onrack's company because the latter has not given in to the usual T'lan Imass gloominess. As Onrack points out in HoC, 'There's always something else to see.' So he is a T'lan Imass who has retained some degree of interest and wonder for the world around him, even after all this time.

This post has been edited by Puck: 21 April 2015 - 10:28 AM

[hopefullyconfused]

Yep, most of those events were lost to me! I remember reading them now, but I was hardly able to put them all back together months later when I got to Reaper's Gale. Something to look forward to someday when I reread, I suppose. All of the clarification is much appreciated. I suspect I may not be the ideal audience for a work of this complexity, although when it everything is laid out, the story does become much more compelling.

[nacht]

I feel it is basically all about Trull.
He is very honest/sincere/principled, capable and helpful (they will do what they can if you ask them ).
I am personally aware of a few people like this (and they have a lot of friends)

If you had a friend like Trull, you would love him and care for him deeply too (unless you are screwed up :-).
In addition they have been through hell and surivived (for ex. consider going through war with a friend like this on you side. The bond will deepen)

[Kanese S's]

It's just a really rad bromance.

[Kanese S's]

Andorion, on 21 April 2015 - 02:27 AM, said:

Regarding Trull, you could just go with all he has accomplished. He was the only Edur to stand up to Rhulad. He fought Icarium and Silchas Ruin and didn't lose, which is pretty incredible, since one is an unstoppable force of destruction and the other one is an Ascendant. His life went from trauma to trauma and yet he retained his compassion and his essential goodness. Now think of the impact of this on Onrak. Broken, outcast, in Trull he sees anothe rone like him, abandoned by his own people. But Trull never gives up. Ever. To somebody like Onrak, cursed by Tlan immortality, Trull appeals to the best in him. Endurance, tenacity, compassion, love....and then to see something as precious as that so cruelly, callously and meaninglessly killed....tragedy is too lessa word.

More seriously, this.


Also it's good to keep in mind that both come from tribal cultures where exile is probably considered as bad as, or worse, than death. So that really amplifies how powerful it is for Onrack to see Trull continue to be compassionate and hopeful after all that.


Like I guess for what Trull's death was like for Onrack... you have to imagine that the single best human being you know, who embodies all you feel is best in people, everything that makes existence worth it, is also your best friend (maybe they are already, I don't know). Now imagine that person is killed, completely unjustly, even while grieving the death of someone that person loved.

Hence all the feels.