Malazan Empire: Some early thoughts - Malazan Empire

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Some early thoughts Spoilers up to chapter 3.....

#1 User is offline   Keysi 

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Posted 07 April 2015 - 10:07 AM

Yeah spoilers for the prologue and first 3 chapters on the off chance anyone in here hasn't read that far yet.....


Well, what a mother truckin' prologue, don't think I've ever read one quite like it. Gotta say, I absolutely detest the T'lan Imass, seriously, after the first page or two I didn't even want to continue reading. It's actually described in the 'history' as a 'pogrom' and they consider it a "war" when they hunt down and butcher a family with young children. And I thought Reeve from FF7 was being over the top when he described it as the "Jenova War" ;). It's strange too because I can tell Tool is going to be an awesome character.

Loved the Fallen God stuff, was getting a nice Day of Lavos vibe from the game Chrono Trigger, which is kinda fitting because I had already kinda imagining Anomander Rake as being sorta similar to Magnus from that same game ( I know Anomander has black skin, but still ;)). Kallor stuff was pretty cool too, and even though he is a dislike-able evil maniac too, I found his all out, nihlism, destruction of all life on the continent to be far less heart wrenching that the Imass's victimization of the one race. Maybe it's because we actually got to see some it from a Jaghut family's point of view, maybe because it has played out in our own world many times, I dunno. I had another profound thought on this but it seems to elude me at the minute :p

I just hope that one day a group of 'warring' T'lan Imass stumble upon Icarium and attempt their holy war with him. Shit will pan out differently that day. Myabe we might even get an awesome climactic battle between Icarium and Tool?

What I love about Erikson's writing is that since he is an anthropologist it shows in his writing he must have spent much time thinking about elder races/species of humans from our own world and they seem to be much of the inspiration for elder races in these books. Can't wait to find out more about those who left ruins that were already ancient in the time of the Imass and Jaghut

The whole two souls in the child Silverfox is quite cool, and I think it's glaringly obvious, though not been stayted yet who the second one, Nightchill will turn out to be, and hence Kallor's hatred of her. Though, for once I think Erikson has messed up with his naming of characters. Isn't Silverfox usually what you'd call an olderish man who has gone gray haired but still attractive and able to pull women?

One thing I found strange is that Kallor was able to curse the Elder Gods and those curses have came true. Any reason this (obvioulsy powerful) mortal would be able to do such a thing? Gods cursing mortals is one thing, but was Kallor even a mage back then? Why did the Elder Gods have to curse him anyway and not just magic his ass to death?
I actually thought it was the fall of the Crippled God at first that had scorched the land, did seem as if it had that sort of destructive power.


Hope we eventually get to see more of Draconus, or at least read about how he met Anomander, fught him ( if that's what even happened) and ended up inside the sword. Dragons clearly will be involved.


Korbal Broach and Bauchelain....hmm I'm keeping my eye on you two....

Yay for Toc the younger being back, he was cool. Also loving the Segleu(sp?), such good writing of other cultures there.

This goddess Burn, who is asleep and dying because of the Crippled God, and Quick Ben is going to save her....but wait, the Crippled God doesn't even want to be chained, and Burn, or at least her servants don't want him to be either....I see no conflict of interest there. Things are rarely that simple......
I wonder what would actually happen should Burn die? It seems nothing is truly immortal in this series. Also makes me wonder what happens to gods such as Krull when they have no more followers, cease to exist? Also how the heck did Kallor manage that with just a curse lol



Ok stop for breath, had other things I wanted to say but that's enough for one post, I'll post more later, possibly after some replies...... So much going on in this, I love it.
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#2 User is offline   Andorion 

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Posted 07 April 2015 - 12:49 PM

Its so difficult to respond without Spoilers, but anyway, regarding Kallor and the Elder Gods, Kallor was on the verge of ascending and he had tremendous power. That gives his curse enormous power.

As for the Elder Gods, consider the "Death is too good for him" line of thought
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#3 User is offline   Nevyn 

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Posted 07 April 2015 - 05:24 PM

Yeah, replying without spoilers is really tough.

For the Kallor question, I'd say that a pretty common reaction that I had at the same point. Just go with it.

For the silverfox nightchill question, do you really not know at this point who that would be?
Tatts early in SH game: Hmm, so if I'm liberal I should have voted Nein to make sure I'm president? I'm not that selfish

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When Venge's turn comes, he will get a yes from Mess, Dolmen, Nevyn and Venge but a no from the 3 fascists and me. **** with my Government, and i'll **** with yours
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#4 User is offline   Grief 

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Posted 07 April 2015 - 07:16 PM

View PostNevyn, on 07 April 2015 - 05:24 PM, said:

Yeah, replying without spoilers is really tough.

For the Kallor question, I'd say that a pretty common reaction that I had at the same point. Just go with it.

For the silverfox nightchill question, do you really not know at this point who that would be?


Think you might have misread, they said they thought it was very obvious who it would turn out to be. At that point in the series, I don't think it's confirmed though.

Cougar said:

Grief, FFS will you do something with your sig, it's bloody awful


worry said:

Grief is right (until we abolish capitalism).
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#5 User is offline   Nevyn 

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Posted 07 April 2015 - 07:41 PM

Is anything ever confirmed at any point in the series.

But point taken, I did misread that sentence.
Tatts early in SH game: Hmm, so if I'm liberal I should have voted Nein to make sure I'm president? I'm not that selfish

Tatts later in SAME game: I'm going to be a corrupt official. I have turned from my liberal ways, and now will vote against the pesky liberals. Viva la Fascism.
When Venge's turn comes, he will get a yes from Mess, Dolmen, Nevyn and Venge but a no from the 3 fascists and me. **** with my Government, and i'll **** with yours
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#6 User is offline   melonhead 

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Posted 08 April 2015 - 05:50 AM

View PostKeysi, on 07 April 2015 - 10:07 AM, said:

This goddess Burn, who is asleep and dying because of the Crippled God, and Quick Ben is going to save her....but wait, the Crippled God doesn't even want to be chained, and Burn, or at least her servants don't want him to be either....I see no conflict of interest there. Things are rarely that simple......
I wonder what would actually happen should Burn die? It seems nothing is truly immortal in this series. Also makes me wonder what happens to gods such as Krull when they have no more followers, cease to exist? Also how the heck did Kallor manage that with just a curse lol



Ok stop for breath, had other things I wanted to say but that's enough for one post, I'll post more later, possibly after some replies...... So much going on in this, I love it.


Regarding Burn, without spoiling anything, it seems that the Crippled God has been chained to Burns flesh, therefore his sphere of influence is very limited. So he is fighting back in the only way he can, by poisoning her. Burn/Burns servants obviously want the CG gone because he is killing her, and the CG wants freedom, but he cant achieve it so he does the only thing he can. Which is attempt to destroy his prison, so to speak.
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#7 User is offline   worry 

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Posted 08 April 2015 - 05:58 AM

It's been almost a day, have you finished the book yet?
They came with white hands and left with red hands.
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#8 User is offline   Keysi 

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Posted 08 April 2015 - 12:07 PM

Haven't even read any more, might have to wait til the weekend when I'll be able to have a solid few hours to attack it with rather than just dribs and drabs that i'd be able to do before then. Might take it into work tonight actually, cos Hood knows I intend on doin FA anyways.
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#9 User is offline   Gorefest 

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Posted 08 April 2015 - 02:41 PM

View PostKeysi, on 08 April 2015 - 12:07 PM, said:

Might take it into work tonight actually, cos Hood knows I intend on doin FA anyways.


Seriously, this 'no spoiler' rule is going to kill me. I mean, come on, this is just too much.
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#10 User is offline   Abyss 

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Posted 08 April 2015 - 06:08 PM

View PostGorefest, on 08 April 2015 - 02:41 PM, said:

View PostKeysi, on 08 April 2015 - 12:07 PM, said:

Might take it into work tonight actually, cos Hood knows I intend on doin FA anyways.


Seriously, this 'no spoiler' rule is going to kill me. I mean, come on, this is just too much.


It's Keysi's read-thread. Curb your enthusiaspoilerasm.
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#11 User is offline   Keysi 

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Posted 10 April 2015 - 12:24 AM

View PostGorefest, on 08 April 2015 - 02:41 PM, said:

View PostKeysi, on 08 April 2015 - 12:07 PM, said:

Might take it into work tonight actually, cos Hood knows I intend on doin FA anyways.


Seriously, this 'no spoiler' rule is going to kill me. I mean, come on, this is just too much.







From this I can only assume that Hood gets involved, somehow. Some way......that would be nice.
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#12 User is offline   Gorefest 

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Posted 10 April 2015 - 10:54 AM

It was more an unintended wordplay than a spoiler, no worries :D Please let us know how you get on, I'll promise not to interrupt with more silly interjections!
Yesterday, upon the stair, I saw a man who wasn't there. He wasn't there again today. Oh, how I wish he'd go away.
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#13 User is offline   Keysi 

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Posted 10 April 2015 - 03:05 PM

I know. I's only messin'.
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#14 User is offline   Keysi 

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Posted 19 April 2015 - 12:51 PM

Okie dokie, forgive my absence from all things Malazan for the last wee while, been pretty buy with work, studying and a very emotional season 6 of Sons of Anarchy. I could have cried.

Progressed a bit with MOI, can't help feeling a tad sorry for Kallor, he's many milenia older, hundreds of milenia in some cases than most of the other characters, yet gets threatened to be beten senseless and the occasional bitch slapping from these young upstarts, but hey at least great power was hinted at, being that Quick is a bit scared of him.


Wasn't much convinced by Paran's lament for the T'lan Imas, their thousands of years of sorrow and aall that. They were horrible creatures and deserve a lot of suffering. Gonna be interesting what happens.

One thing I have noticed so far, unless I have just missed it, is there is a distinct lack of racism going on, considering even amongst the human races there are at least several different colours of skin. Especially since many of the characters are soldiers, and being in the military myself I know that sort of thing goes on be it genuinely good humored banter between friends to out and out bullying. Any of you here also in the forces will know what I mean when I talk about the type of cut throat humor that goes on that would seem like bullying to civvies can in fact just be banter. (not condoning actual racism here either-obviously it's abhorrent). Plus with how dark fantasy like this tends to be and entertainment in general, I would have suspected to encounter real racism too, especially mentions of it regarding the enemy armies. With so many different nationalities existing in this world i'm just surprised to not have encountered a fair bit of it, in one form or another.


Kruppe, Kruppe, Kruppe, Kruppe, Kruppe, Kruppe. Poor Kruppe, he seems to have been relegated to mere comic relief for the short appearance he has had so far, and I know that with him that's all an affectation, but it's not coming across as that here. The hitching a ride on the flying table thing made me sad. I loved Kruppe.

Interesting memory from DG, the T'lan Imas got offended at the notion of another 'Fiirst Empire' and quickly showed them who the real proper Firsts were. This happened some 9000(or 11000?) years ago, and yet umans in their modern form have been a specie of their own at least a hundred thousand years ago when Kallor was king. I wonder how many other "First" empires existed in that time and were summarily put in their place by the Imass.

Definetly feel sorry for the Crippled God at this point. Dragged into this world from an "alien" world. He didn't even want to be here and hhas been put through some shiz nit. Maybe a happy ending would be to find a way to send him back. I doubt that is where any of this is going ;)


I love this book
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#15 User is offline   Andorion 

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Posted 19 April 2015 - 01:08 PM

Quote

Progressed a bit with MOI, can't help feeling a tad sorry for Kallor, he's many milenia older, hundreds of milenia in some cases than most of the other characters, yet gets threatened to be beten senseless and the occasional bitch slapping from these young upstarts, but hey at least great power was hinted at, being that Quick is a bit scared of him.

Wasn't much convinced by Paran's lament for the T'lan Imas, their thousands of years of sorrow and aall that. They were horrible creatures and deserve a lot of suffering. Gonna be interesting what happens.<br style="color: rgb(250, 255, 237); font-family: tahoma, arial, verdana, sans-serif; line-height: 18px; background-color: rgb(33, 33, 33);">

Kruppe, Kruppe, Kruppe, Kruppe, Kruppe, Kruppe. Poor Kruppe, he seems to have been relegated to mere comic relief for the short appearance he has had so far, and I know that with him that's all an affectation, but it's not coming across as that here. The hitching a ride on the flying table thing made me sad. I loved Kruppe.



I would really really like to read your comments about these three exact issues, once you have finished the book. Posted Image

I won't say anything else. Your post is so...... pregnant with potential, I will spoil something or the other.
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#16 User is offline   Keysi 

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Posted 19 April 2015 - 01:47 PM

Haha, don't worry, I assumed as much even while writing it. I suppose in a way I am teasing long time fans with my musings- I know from experience regarding other series that I love dearly ( The Company, Hyperion, Saga of the Exiles et.c) that I would be jealous of and love to be in the position of a newcomer experiencing all it for the first time.

So Gruntle has just smashed-or been smashed by- the Barghast woman. I am starting to get confused by just excatly what is meant by the terms human and non human in this series. With the Elder "races" i'm thinking archaic humans from our own world that modern humans evolved from. Obvioulsy there are several different modern human races exist on the several different continents and then we have non humans like the Moranth and Barghast.

So much anthropology going on and possibly a touch of bestiality. Whatever tickles your pickle I suppose.
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#17 User is offline   Andorion 

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Posted 19 April 2015 - 02:03 PM

View PostKeysi, on 19 April 2015 - 01:47 PM, said:

Haha, don't worry, I assumed as much even while writing it. I suppose in a way I am teasing long time fans with my musings- I know from experience regarding other series that I love dearly ( The Company, Hyperion, Saga of the Exiles et.c) that I would be jealous of and love to be in the position of a newcomer experiencing all it for the first time.

So Gruntle has just smashed-or been smashed by- the Barghast woman. I am starting to get confused by just excatly what is meant by the terms human and non human in this series. With the Elder "races" i'm thinking archaic humans from our own world that modern humans evolved from. Obvioulsy there are several different modern human races exist on the several different continents and then we have non humans like the Moranth and Barghast.

So much anthropology going on and possibly a touch of bestiality. Whatever tickles your pickle I suppose.


I am pretty sure this doesn't count as a Spoiler.

Regarding the Elder Races, I think you can take it as read that three of them - the Jaghut, the Forkrul Assail, the K'chain Chemaille are not really 'related' to humans. As soon as you see a Kchain or an Assail for yourself, you will understand. Oh damn, almost spoiled something. RAFO

As for the Barghast, thats a different kettle of fish and RAFO.
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#18 User is offline   worry 

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Posted 19 April 2015 - 07:32 PM

If the standard is "horrible creatures", what species of reasoning beings doesn't deserve suffering?
They came with white hands and left with red hands.
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#19 User is offline   Keysi 

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Posted 20 April 2015 - 09:05 PM

What??

From what's been revealed so far, the Jaghut didn't deserve all the suffering inflicted upon them. They have mostly been described as pacifists, though there is the odd tyrant, but they are a rarity and usually delt with by other Jaghut anyway.

Plus collective punishment is not a good way to go about it.

Though I am expecting a possible big reveal that they were not always pacifists perhaps....it was mentioned once I think that they did not always live in solitude, maybe we will find out that when they did live in communities they were right nasty bastards too. Just a wee thought.
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#20 User is offline   worry 

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Posted 20 April 2015 - 09:43 PM

If collective punishment is not a good way to go about it, why reject Paran's lament for the T'lan Imass's sorrow?
They came with white hands and left with red hands.
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