[theocean]

Who is the most powerful soletaken in the series? Is it rake, olar, Kilava, gruntle in trake mode, others??



Do we ever see any soletaken from the toblaki/jaghut/fokrul races?

[Gorefest]

Powerful in what? Fistfights? Diplomacy? Chess? Is a human more powerful than a lion? What if they are in the same cage? What if they both have a bazooka?

[Hocknose]

I think if one soletaken had an M72 bazooka that would defo beat one with an M1!!!

[Tru]

I'm sure that he meant chess, it's the way I read it at least....all smartassness aside, my rather limited guess (I've only read the first 6 "fallen" novels and one "empire" novel) would be Rake, by virtue of what I know of his abilities in both forms. As a dragon he is amongst the most formidable of dragons, which happens to make him one of the more deadly "beasts" you encounter, able to give a Jaghut Tyrant a bit of a headache, and likely able to defeat any other soletaken, and then as a man he is known to be one of the most skilled and deadly warriors, regardless of what sword he happens to wield. I would put him among the top 5 character in martial ability in the series, which I think would make him the most deadly in this category amongst the soletaken I've yet to read about. Now add that he commands a small army of Tiste Andi, making him a bit of a problem in that regard as well.

[Andorion]

Rake. No question.

Spoiler upto RG (I think)

Spoiler

He hunted Eleint - pureblood raging Eleint in Shadow for crying out loud!

[theocean]

Gorefest, on 21 November 2014 - 02:00 PM, said:

Powerful in what? Fistfights? Diplomacy? Chess? Is a human more powerful than a lion? What if they are in the same cage? What if they both have a bazooka?

Clearly i meant bench press.... everyone should know that. If you were a real malazan fan you would already know from Midnight tides and Toll the hounds thatwhen the question of most powerful comes up it is always decided by bench press.




From Midnight tides: Trull Segnar then sat down opposite Rhulad "Rhulad you know there is only one thing left to do..." Rhulad with a look of hesitation followed with an odd smirk said to Trull "BENCH PRESS FIGHT" and so it was decided.


From Toll the Hounds: As traveller approached rake, Anomander looked upon traveller and they met eyes, rake looking down while traveller had to angle his view slightly upward to lock eyes with the son of Darkness himself. Rake knew what must be done. In order to rightfully challenge one such as traveller there was only one proper way to initiate the battle that would decide so much. And from those watching including the toblakai karsa, a slow methodic chant began to take form, growing in tone and sound... BENCH PRESS>>> BENCH PRESS>>>BENCH PRESS... And so it was on like donkey kong.

This post has been edited by theocean: 21 November 2014 - 05:47 PM

[Gorefest]

It might have been convincing, save that it lacked at least three words that required me to pull out the dictionary

[Abyss]

Gorefest, on 21 November 2014 - 02:00 PM, said:

Powerful in what? Fistfights? Diplomacy? Chess? Is a human more powerful than a lion? What if they are in the same cage? What if they both have a bazooka?

How does the lion operate the bazooka without thumbs?

[theocean]

Gorefest, on 21 November 2014 - 07:16 PM, said:

It might have been convincing, save that it lacked at least three words that required me to pull out the dictionary

Its one of my favorite passages from toll the hounds. The passage is just so beautifully written its like it was written by someone other than the original authors.

[Abyss]

Not really a level ho'd win.

As a starting point, draconic soletaken are very different from shapeshifter soletaken, and likely more powerful on the balance, but not necessarily... by example Kallor couldn't have taken Gryllen out the way he took out Orfantal... hell The Watch carved his way through three or four draconic Liosan and he couldn't take Gryllen out the same way...

....and then there are d'ivers... not necessarily more powerful but unless you kill all the bodies they can make new ones...

...plus Trake's Legion, whatever Paran was doing with the Hound blood, Ho's human d'ivers, Rylandaras' Jackal-god form, Moby whose sembled demon form is more powerful than his veered bohk'ar'al form, the Nachts/Kynyrylla with a similar thing, soletaken mages like Bauchelain and KB who have access to their warrens, the FA god...



All of which is to say, the answer is Wolverine.



...or possibly Rake being draconic, an ascendant, and a High Mage of two Elder Warrens.

[theocean]

Abyss, on 21 November 2014 - 07:39 PM, said:

Gorefest, on 21 November 2014 - 02:00 PM, said:

Powerful in what? Fistfights? Diplomacy? Chess? Is a human more powerful than a lion? What if they are in the same cage? What if they both have a bazooka?

How does the lion operate the bazooka without thumbs?

most lions have a tail that is just under 4 feet, which is precisely the right length to fire a bazooka... coinsidence... i think not.

[Dolmen 2.0]

Abyss, on 21 November 2014 - 07:55 PM, said:

Not really a level ho'd win.

As a starting point, draconic soletaken are very different from shapeshifter soletaken, and likely more powerful on the balance, but not necessarily... by example Kallor couldn't have taken Gryllen out the way he took out Orfantal... hell The Watch carved his way through three or four draconic Liosan and he couldn't take Gryllen out the same way...

....and then there are d'ivers... not necessarily more powerful but unless you kill all the bodies they can make new ones...

...plus Trake's Legion, whatever Paran was doing with the Hound blood, Ho's human d'ivers, Rylandaras' Jackal-god form, Moby whose sembled demon form is more powerful than his veered bohk'ar'al form, the Nachts/Kynyrylla with a similar thing, soletaken mages like Bauchelain and KB who have access to their warrens, the FA god...



All of which is to say, the answer is Wolverine.



...or possibly Rake being draconic, an ascendant, and a High Mage of two Elder Warrens.

The answer you're all looking for...is Tiam.

[theocean]

Dolmen 2.0, on 21 November 2014 - 08:25 PM, said:

Abyss, on 21 November 2014 - 07:55 PM, said:

Not really a level ho'd win.

As a starting point, draconic soletaken are very different from shapeshifter soletaken, and likely more powerful on the balance, but not necessarily... by example Kallor couldn't have taken Gryllen out the way he took out Orfantal... hell The Watch carved his way through three or four draconic Liosan and he couldn't take Gryllen out the same way...

....and then there are d'ivers... not necessarily more powerful but unless you kill all the bodies they can make new ones...

...plus Trake's Legion, whatever Paran was doing with the Hound blood, Ho's human d'ivers, Rylandaras' Jackal-god form, Moby whose sembled demon form is more powerful than his veered bohk'ar'al form, the Nachts/Kynyrylla with a similar thing, soletaken mages like Bauchelain and KB who have access to their warrens, the FA god...



All of which is to say, the answer is Wolverine.



...or possibly Rake being draconic, an ascendant, and a High Mage of two Elder Warrens.

The answer you're all looking for...is Tiam.

but who killed Tiam? i thought the rumor was rake... and that was pre soletaken rake right>? he then drank her blood to obtain the soletaken badass we all know and love.


Olar gets no love from anyone here? I thought when we saw her in the warren she was monstous in size and a few people who said that had also seen rake and someone i thought said it made rake draconic form look tiny? am i right or are my facts lacking? She was the twin in appearance to tiam.

[Tru]

theocean, on 21 November 2014 - 09:09 PM, said:

Dolmen 2.0, on 21 November 2014 - 08:25 PM, said:

Abyss, on 21 November 2014 - 07:55 PM, said:

Not really a level ho'd win.

As a starting point, draconic soletaken are very different from shapeshifter soletaken, and likely more powerful on the balance, but not necessarily... by example Kallor couldn't have taken Gryllen out the way he took out Orfantal... hell The Watch carved his way through three or four draconic Liosan and he couldn't take Gryllen out the same way...

....and then there are d'ivers... not necessarily more powerful but unless you kill all the bodies they can make new ones...

...plus Trake's Legion, whatever Paran was doing with the Hound blood, Ho's human d'ivers, Rylandaras' Jackal-god form, Moby whose sembled demon form is more powerful than his veered bohk'ar'al form, the Nachts/Kynyrylla with a similar thing, soletaken mages like Bauchelain and KB who have access to their warrens, the FA god...



All of which is to say, the answer is Wolverine.



...or possibly Rake being draconic, an ascendant, and a High Mage of two Elder Warrens.

The answer you're all looking for...is Tiam.

but who killed Tiam? i thought the rumor was rake... and that was pre soletaken rake right>? he then drank her blood to obtain the soletaken badass we all know and love.


Olar gets no love from anyone here? I thought when we saw her in the warren she was monstous in size and a few people who said that had also seen rake and someone i thought said it made rake draconic form look tiny? am i right or are my facts lacking? She was the twin in appearance to tiam.

Who do you think is the most powerful? I think one of the things i love about Erikson and this series is that it asks the question, but doesn't give us an answer with regard to this sort of question. It's like Erikson wants us to debate about it, to wonder about this stuff, but he's not going to tell us..leaving it subjective based on circumstance..and I think that is the point..any number of characters can have an advantage based on the variables. Take the "showdown" between Kalam and Pearl as an example...he conjectures about that fateful day for several novels before giving us something other than what we wanted too, expected too see...so, once and for all, it's decided that.....we still don't know, nor will we ever know. We get the same treatment for multiple characters throughout the series. Erikson is a sadistic bastard and I love him for it.

[Tarthenal Theloman Toblakai]

Tru, on 21 November 2014 - 10:27 PM, said:

theocean, on 21 November 2014 - 09:09 PM, said:

Dolmen 2.0, on 21 November 2014 - 08:25 PM, said:

Abyss, on 21 November 2014 - 07:55 PM, said:

Not really a level ho'd win.

As a starting point, draconic soletaken are very different from shapeshifter soletaken, and likely more powerful on the balance, but not necessarily... by example Kallor couldn't have taken Gryllen out the way he took out Orfantal... hell The Watch carved his way through three or four draconic Liosan and he couldn't take Gryllen out the same way...

....and then there are d'ivers... not necessarily more powerful but unless you kill all the bodies they can make new ones...

...plus Trake's Legion, whatever Paran was doing with the Hound blood, Ho's human d'ivers, Rylandaras' Jackal-god form, Moby whose sembled demon form is more powerful than his veered bohk'ar'al form, the Nachts/Kynyrylla with a similar thing, soletaken mages like Bauchelain and KB who have access to their warrens, the FA god...



All of which is to say, the answer is Wolverine.



...or possibly Rake being draconic, an ascendant, and a High Mage of two Elder Warrens.

The answer you're all looking for...is Tiam.

but who killed Tiam? i thought the rumor was rake... and that was pre soletaken rake right>? he then drank her blood to obtain the soletaken badass we all know and love.


Olar gets no love from anyone here? I thought when we saw her in the warren she was monstous in size and a few people who said that had also seen rake and someone i thought said it made rake draconic form look tiny? am i right or are my facts lacking? She was the twin in appearance to tiam.

Who do you think is the most powerful? I think one of the things i love about Erikson and this series is that it asks the question, but doesn't give us an answer with regard to this sort of question. It's like Erikson wants us to debate about it, to wonder about this stuff, but he's not going to tell us..leaving it subjective based on circumstance..and I think that is the point..any number of characters can have an advantage based on the variables. Take the "showdown" between Kalam and Pearl as an example...he conjectures about that fateful day for several novels before giving us something other than what we wanted too, expected too see...so, once and for all, it's decided that.....we still don't know, nor will we ever know. We get the same treatment for multiple characters throughout the series. Erikson is a sadistic bastard and I love him for it.

And that's what makes us all come here everyday and get immersed in random conversations and makes us NEED to read the books over and over and over and also to await each book with baited breath! Another tiny molecule of information is all we need for our fix, then it's another year or two of painful waiting lol

[Inane Babble]

If we are going to include d'ivers here, it is pretty obviously the freaking Dhenrabi d'ivers from Path of Hands. Pretty sure that strength of a D'ivers is indicated by the volume of mass it can manifest as. There was a remark somewhere that one of the D'ivers was more powerful than the last time it was seen as evidenced by it having more bodies. The Dhenrabi are the size of dragons, are ship wreckers and whale killers that kill by wrapping itself around enormous objects and crushing/drowning, and it also has a mouth wide enough to fit a man lying down without trouble. That person manifests as a freaking SHOAL of them. Yeah yeah locomotive constraints on land it can't catch a dragon OH SHIT, IT TELEPORTS well nevermind that I guess it can.

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

My gut instinct was Rake without question, but I agree it's one of the joys of the books that you can never be quite sure and it's open to debate.

[theocean]

Tru, on 21 November 2014 - 10:27 PM, said:

theocean, on 21 November 2014 - 09:09 PM, said:

Dolmen 2.0, on 21 November 2014 - 08:25 PM, said:

Abyss, on 21 November 2014 - 07:55 PM, said:

Not really a level ho'd win.

As a starting point, draconic soletaken are very different from shapeshifter soletaken, and likely more powerful on the balance, but not necessarily... by example Kallor couldn't have taken Gryllen out the way he took out Orfantal... hell The Watch carved his way through three or four draconic Liosan and he couldn't take Gryllen out the same way...

....and then there are d'ivers... not necessarily more powerful but unless you kill all the bodies they can make new ones...

...plus Trake's Legion, whatever Paran was doing with the Hound blood, Ho's human d'ivers, Rylandaras' Jackal-god form, Moby whose sembled demon form is more powerful than his veered bohk'ar'al form, the Nachts/Kynyrylla with a similar thing, soletaken mages like Bauchelain and KB who have access to their warrens, the FA god...



All of which is to say, the answer is Wolverine.



...or possibly Rake being draconic, an ascendant, and a High Mage of two Elder Warrens.

The answer you're all looking for...is Tiam.

but who killed Tiam? i thought the rumor was rake... and that was pre soletaken rake right>? he then drank her blood to obtain the soletaken badass we all know and love.


Olar gets no love from anyone here? I thought when we saw her in the warren she was monstous in size and a few people who said that had also seen rake and someone i thought said it made rake draconic form look tiny? am i right or are my facts lacking? She was the twin in appearance to tiam.

Who do you think is the most powerful? I think one of the things i love about Erikson and this series is that it asks the question, but doesn't give us an answer with regard to this sort of question. It's like Erikson wants us to debate about it, to wonder about this stuff, but he's not going to tell us..leaving it subjective based on circumstance..and I think that is the point..any number of characters can have an advantage based on the variables. Take the "showdown" between Kalam and Pearl as an example...he conjectures about that fateful day for several novels before giving us something other than what we wanted too, expected too see...so, once and for all, it's decided that.....we still don't know, nor will we ever know. We get the same treatment for multiple characters throughout the series. Erikson is a sadistic bastard and I love him for it.

My guess would be Rake. But i enjoy the convo.

[Dolmen 2.0]

Inane Babble, on 24 November 2014 - 11:24 AM, said:

If we are going to include d'ivers here, it is pretty obviously the freaking Dhenrabi d'ivers from Path of Hands. Pretty sure that strength of a D'ivers is indicated by the volume of mass it can manifest as. There was a remark somewhere that one of the D'ivers was more powerful than the last time it was seen as evidenced by it having more bodies. The Dhenrabi are the size of dragons, are ship wreckers and whale killers that kill by wrapping itself around enormous objects and crushing/drowning, and it also has a mouth wide enough to fit a man lying down without trouble. That person manifests as a freaking SHOAL of them. Yeah yeah locomotive constraints on land it can't catch a dragon OH SHIT, IT TELEPORTS well nevermind that I guess it can.

Give that man a bells

That belongs in the badass list of characters.

Of this I have no doubt.