[Upwood]

Again I come up with Karsa and his "fight" against the Captain. No hurdles at all. He appears. Problems solved. Traveller suspects he cannot attack such a big force alone. But Karsa can. Does he just think he is invincible or is he? I mean it would be wise to have a little plan.

I would be okey with this scene but it happens all the time with the Tiste Edur, Hounds of Shadows, Demons, Icarium, Ruhlad, the CG. He seems unstoppable. Even Rake has his problems with opponents and situations. Not so Karsa Orlong.

I really like that development of this character, because I didn't like him at all in the beginning. But I still see his development as too fast. Living 80 years in isolation and being close-minded and not really clever. Now he seems with full of wisdom. Although I can live with that, it's still a flaw to the "new" Karsa.

So after 8 Books I still don't understand that so many find Karsa their favorite character. I would almost go as far and say I would have liked the series more without Karsa. He looks to me the only character that stands above all else in sense of power and everything. For me it seems he will be the savior in the end and he will resolve the biggest threats (although I don't which threats – besides the CG). Altough I should now Steven Erikson better.

This post has been edited by Upwood: 17 September 2014 - 11:39 AM

[Gothos]

Karsa isn't on the top shelf. He'd get cut to pieces by Rake or Traveller and recognizes the fact. He couldn't stand up to Icarium, no matter any bravado. The two Hounds mauled him something wicked, if it were three things would go differently I think. Remember that Rake stood down all 7 and killed two in no time. He's had a lot of trouble with the Short-tail. He's fallible allright. He got captured and enslaved TWICE. Unstoppable? Hardly.

He has his role to play, but it will likely be very different from what you expect.

[Tarthenal Theloman Toblakai]

Everyone likes Karsa, cuz hes a good old fashioned blunt instrument, that keeps suprising his enemies, and not submitting, fighting for the little guy, and being that huge hulk everybody loves IMO. He is definitely not on the upper level, at least not yet. In the Karsa Trilogy in the future he may get more awesome, who knows, he may get good enough to fight the top guys.

But the main reason hes hard to kill is underestimation and treating him as a savage. This never ends well for those that do it. I think part of the reason he gets savaged is how he just mucks in and gets his hands dirty. I think he proves he can do a sword fight, but mostly he just likes to brawl. The other reason hes such a force, is that godlike flint sword he weilds, and the fact that he is pretty much magic immune thanks to the blood sap stuff of his homeland. Being immune-ish to magic and having almost unstoppable sword goes a long way to making him pretty damn hard to kill.

I would say he would give the big guys a suprise or two, but in the end, he is a brawler and probably would not stand up to Dassem, Rake, Icarium etc. They are forces of nature on another level. More books will shed further light on these kinds of thing, and I can't wait to read more!

[Andorion]

 Gothos, on 17 September 2014 - 11:43 AM, said:

Karsa isn't on the top shelf. He'd get cut to pieces by Rake or Traveller and recognizes the fact. He couldn't stand up to Icarium, no matter any bravado. The two Hounds mauled him something wicked, if it were three things would go differently I think. Remember that Rake stood down all 7 and killed two in no time. He's had a lot of trouble with the Short-tail. He's fallible allright. He got captured and enslaved TWICE. Unstoppable? Hardly.

He has his role to play, but it will likely be very different from what you expect.

Karsa fought the Deragoth, Rake faced the Hounds of Shadow. The Deragoth are probably way more powerful than the Hounds of Shadow

[worry]

He also has a Wolverine-style healing ability (presumably true of all Teblor, minus the brain-injured ones).

[Gothos]

 Andorion, on 17 September 2014 - 04:50 PM, said:

 Gothos, on 17 September 2014 - 11:43 AM, said:

Karsa isn't on the top shelf. He'd get cut to pieces by Rake or Traveller and recognizes the fact. He couldn't stand up to Icarium, no matter any bravado. The two Hounds mauled him something wicked, if it were three things would go differently I think. Remember that Rake stood down all 7 and killed two in no time. He's had a lot of trouble with the Short-tail. He's fallible allright. He got captured and enslaved TWICE. Unstoppable? Hardly.

He has his role to play, but it will likely be very different from what you expect.

Karsa fought the Deragoth, Rake faced the Hounds of Shadow. The Deragoth are probably way more powerful than the Hounds of Shadow

We may just never know that, eh?

Many of us like Karsa because he gives voice to something we ourselves feel from time to time - the rejection of civilization and modern societies. He's a spirit of anarchy that speaks to the teenage rebel still sitting somewhere inside. He defies the "establishment" and is not deterred by overwhelming odds.
On the other hand, I have a feeling like many of us dislike Karsa because he's something of a jock. We're most of us nerds here. Huh.

Some say that T'riss once made him breakfast, and that he is confused by the number six. All that we know is that he's Toblakai.

This post has been edited by Gothos: 18 September 2014 - 05:43 AM

[Upwood]

 Gothos, on 17 September 2014 - 11:43 AM, said:

Karsaisn't on the top shelf. He'd get cut to pieces by Rake or Traveller andrecognizes the fact. He couldn't stand up to Icarium, no matter any bravado.The two Hounds mauled him something wicked, if it were three things would godifferently I think. Remember that Rake stood down all 7 and killed two in notime. He's had a lot of trouble with the Short-tail. He's fallible allright. Hegot captured and enslaved TWICE. Unstoppable? Hardly.

I haven't finished the series, so Idon't know what else will come. But so far this is how I see Karsa – but yes it was written too extrem (unstoppable, above all else). And my memory from the beginning of the Karsa story is not so good.

1) He would get cut to pieces by Rake or Traveller? I didn't see anything that proves this. It's true standing above all else is too much. And I know that Rake or Traveller are at least similar in strength. He just seems to me above them because he achieved everything so easily.

And he recognizes the fact that Traveller is stronger? I don't see any sign of that (so far). And did he meet Rake?(Spoiler?)

2) Didn't he stand up against Icarium? I know not the angry version but still.

3) I have in my memory that the Deragoth are stronger and for me it didn't seem that he would have a big problem with one more.

4) That's another thing I don't like. He got captured twice in the beginning of his story. And after that he becomes so much stronger. Didn't he fight the short-tail without his sword?

As I said I like the character from Karsa just the progression was a bit fast.

This post has been edited by Upwood: 19 September 2014 - 08:35 AM

[Battalion]

Doesn't Orco, or whatever his name is, knock Karsa out with a single punch?
And he's just a human.

[DaddyDraconus]

 Battalion, on 19 September 2014 - 08:35 AM, said:

Doesn't Orco, or whatever his name is, knock Karsa out with a single punch?
And he's just a human.

Urko breaks a rib I think and blasts the air out of Karsa. But he is one of those legendary Old Gaurd figures who fought plenty of battles during the establisment period of the empire. And you have to remember in these books the more experiences a charecter has and the more intense the experience usually leads to them amassing uncommon power as long as they don't die. I think it may have its roots in the Malazan setting being the framework for a a game, so charecters like Urko have gained enough xp to "level up".
Which is all to say that he was exceptional and a regular human would not have been able to break Karsa with a gut punch.

[Esa1996]

Someone enlighten me. When did Karsa fight a Short-Tail? I have no memory of it what so ever although it's only been like 3 months since I read HoC.

[Aptorian]

It happens in an early chapter of Bonehunters.

[Spoilsport Stonny]

Everyone plz, keep in mind that SE's characters are here because they are part of a story being told. We all know by now that the writers don't stand around pondering 'Who can beat who?" scenarios, especially at the sake of sacrificing a good tale.

These characters will be what they need to be for the story the authors are telling. Is that frustrating? Maybe. I call it refreshing. Karsa is a powerful, stubborn character - two things that haven't changed about him since the beginning, btw - so that makes it more convincing, but that's more a point of Erikson being particularly adept at character development, where certain things change over time, others don't, and occasionally, people return to their bad habits.

I'm pretty good with all of Karsa's adventures and how they work out. Especially the time he gets a penis bone.I didn't see that one *ahem* coming.

This post has been edited by Spoilsport Stonny: 29 September 2014 - 06:30 PM