[Dadding]

On p. 719 when Sand is going crazy and imagining the past, Spinnock is talking to Rake. He says: "I am ever at your call, Lord. What is it that you wish me to do?" and then the narration says "Anomander's answer stole all humour from the soldier's face. And she recalled, it was never to return". What does Rake ask of Spinnock?

On p. 878 Tulas asks Silchas about the Throne of Shadow: "Since we are about to die, will you tell me what happened to the Throne of Shadow?". What's he talking about here? Just that Andarist was charged with protecting it and then died?

[Luperci]

Dadding, on 16 August 2014 - 08:54 PM, said:

On p. 719 when Sand is going crazy and imagining the past, Spinnock is talking to Rake. He says: "I am ever at your call, Lord. What is it that you wish me to do?" and then the narration says "Anomander's answer stole all humour from the soldier's face. And she recalled, it was never to return". What does Rake ask of Spinnock?

On p. 878 Tulas asks Silchas about the Throne of Shadow: "Since we are about to die, will you tell me what happened to the Throne of Shadow?". What's he talking about here? Just that Andarist was charged with protecting it and then died?

1. I don't recall if that was ever explained btw Rake and Spinnock, although I could see it being mentioned in the Kharkana's Trilogy. Unless it was before Kurald Galain was deserted when Rake went against Mother Dark and sent Draconus to Dragnipur, then its possible that he asked Spin to lead the people to another place. I haven't read FoD yet so it might be best to read that first before somone else spoils something from the book maybe.

2. I think Tulas died before the shattering of Shadow, I never understood why a Edur would be in a barrow in Hood's Realm anyway. So he was probably wondering what happened to the Throne since Kellenvad and Dancer took over. Once again I don't think a lot was explained since SE is writing the Stories of the Tiste I would assume more about Andarist and Shadow would be explained there.

[Zerv]

Not sure about the first question. I do think the conversation occured before the abandonment of Kurald Galain, so CapedCrusader's suggestion seems plausible. Forge of Darkness takes place well before this event, so no real answers are to be found there.

As far as I remember Tulas died during the old conflict for the Throne of Shadow, before the shattering of Kurald Emurlahn. He probably wanted to know how that turned out. The guy's been out of the game for quite some time.

[Dadding]

Cool beans, thanks guys!

[prq]

Zerv, on 16 August 2014 - 11:40 PM, said:

As far as I remember Tulas died during the old conflict for the Throne of Shadow, before the shattering of Kurald Emurlahn. He probably wanted to know how that turned out. The guy's been out of the game for quite some time.

I don't recall when Tulas died, but the malazan wikia says that Tulas Shorn died

Spoiler

during the Jaghut War on Death

I can't really remember anywhere in the books where this is mentioned.

[Zerv]

prq, on 02 September 2014 - 10:15 AM, said:

Zerv, on 16 August 2014 - 11:40 PM, said:

As far as I remember Tulas died during the old conflict for the Throne of Shadow, before the shattering of Kurald Emurlahn. He probably wanted to know how that turned out. The guy's been out of the game for quite some time.

I don't recall when Tulas died, but the malazan wikia says that Tulas Shorn died

Spoiler

during the Jaghut War on Death

I can't really remember anywhere in the books where this is mentioned.

The wiki may well be right. Since Tulas first appears escaping from Hood's Realm it would certainly make a lot of sense. I think there's some disagreement regarding whether the undead Eleint who speaks to Kallor about the Jaghut War on Death (and claims to have taken part in said conflict) is Tulas or not, but if they are indeed one and the same I suppose that would be confirmation. To be honest I'm not sure where my notion of Tulas having died in the war for the Throne of Shadow stems from. Nevertheless, I would still say that his inquiry is more likely to be refering to the ancient conflict than the recent developments on Drift Avalii.

[worry]

Your notion comes from the fact that he and Silchas seem to agree that Tulas was killed by Anomander himself to keep Tulas quiet.

[The Old Guard]

In the conversation with Ruin Tulas mentions a secret, one which Anomandaris didn't tell even Silchas and one he killed Tulas for, but they never elaborate further.

Also, I believe that the escaped undead Eleint who talks to Kallor and Tulas are the same person, only I can't quite recall the specific reason why.

[worry]

I think SE said they were in the TTH Tor re-read Q&A.

[Zerv]

Right, Anomander killing Tulas in order to keep a secret does ring a bell. Regarding the undead dragon, I looked up the TTH tor re-read Q&A and found the relevant quote:

Quote

13. Tufty
Thursday August 29, 2013 12:03am EDT
Hi Steve! I'm curious as to whether the Wrecker's Coast where Mappo and the Trygalle group found themselves in a cursed town with a probably-Napan-related-Jaghut is supposed to be in any particular place? I suppose if their warren travel corresponded more or less to a straight line from Darujhistan towards Letheras where Icarium is then it would make sense for the Wrecker's Coast to be at the northern part of Assail but that's just my speculation. Also, can you make an official "word of god" declaration of whether the undead dragon that wakes up and speaks to Kallor is Tulas Shorn? There's been quite a controversy over it with some people believing he sounds too different and must be a different undead dragon than Tulas. Thanks!

Tufty: Yeah, I think I had the Wrecker's Coast of Northern Assail in mind. But then, with Cam nearing the end of his Assail novel (which I've not yet read), why, everything may change! Isn't life exciting? Regards the dragon, yes, that was Kagamandras Tulas Shorn. Or so I have been told by the God of Intentions, who's good at, uh, pronouncements.

(Link)

So, with that cleared up it seems we can assert that Tulas did indeed partake in the War on Death, but this means that we have two possibly (but perhaps not necessarily) conflicting accounts of the manner of his death. Perhaps Anomander's "killing" of Tulas simply amounted to sending him to participate in the War on Death, confident that he would die in the process?

[Andorion]

Zerv, on 03 September 2014 - 09:49 PM, said:

Right, Anomander killing Tulas in order to keep a secret does ring a bell. Regarding the undead dragon, I looked up the TTH tor re-read Q&A and found the relevant quote:

Quote

13. Tufty
Thursday August 29, 2013 12:03am EDT
Hi Steve! I'm curious as to whether the Wrecker's Coast where Mappo and the Trygalle group found themselves in a cursed town with a probably-Napan-related-Jaghut is supposed to be in any particular place? I suppose if their warren travel corresponded more or less to a straight line from Darujhistan towards Letheras where Icarium is then it would make sense for the Wrecker's Coast to be at the northern part of Assail but that's just my speculation. Also, can you make an official "word of god" declaration of whether the undead dragon that wakes up and speaks to Kallor is Tulas Shorn? There's been quite a controversy over it with some people believing he sounds too different and must be a different undead dragon than Tulas. Thanks!

Tufty: Yeah, I think I had the Wrecker's Coast of Northern Assail in mind. But then, with Cam nearing the end of his Assail novel (which I've not yet read), why, everything may change! Isn't life exciting? Regards the dragon, yes, that was Kagamandras Tulas Shorn. Or so I have been told by the God of Intentions, who's good at, uh, pronouncements.

(Link)

So, with that cleared up it seems we can assert that Tulas did indeed partake in the War on Death, but this means that we have two possibly (but perhaps not necessarily) conflicting accounts of the manner of his death. Perhaps Anomander's "killing" of Tulas simply amounted to sending him to participate in the War on Death, confident that he would die in the process?

Or Rake unexpectedly jumped into the War on Death and stabbed him

[worry]

Or he is killed by Rake and serves in Hood's Army as one of the first Undead.

[The Old Guard]

Fuzzy Puppy of High House Decay, on 04 September 2014 - 02:35 AM, said:

Or he is killed by Rake and serves in Hood's Army as one of the first Undead.

During the Jaghut War on Death the undead were on Death's side until Hood assumed its aspect. The undead fought for Hood only in TtH. Could it be that he fought against Hood?

[worry]

You seem to know a hell of a lot of the details on this War on Death. Very suspicious.

[The Old Guard]

Fuzzy Puppy of High House Decay, on 04 September 2014 - 06:38 PM, said:

You seem to know a hell of a lot of the details on this War on Death. Very suspicious.

My knowledge is less certain than it might seem. Some of it is laziness, for example when I am using verbal tenses that express certainty because I'm tired of writing "I think", "I suppose" and so on when it's pretty obvious that those are only my thoughts, as it was me who wrote them down.

This particular bit, however, comes from a character who said something along the lines of: "every fallen ally went on to replenish the enemy lines". If I remember correctly, it was Tulas chatting with Kallor in TtH. Besides, it would be only logical to assume that Hood fighting against Death implies that he was not its god at the time. Thus an army of undead would have fought against him.

Now, this information does not represent a spoiler of ICE's books, nor a FoD spoiler for reasons I will elaborate only in a private conversation, as I do not want to explain here using the same spoilers I am trying to avoid posting.

[Inane Babble]

The Old Guard, on 05 September 2014 - 09:25 AM, said:

Fuzzy Puppy of High House Decay, on 04 September 2014 - 06:38 PM, said:

You seem to know a hell of a lot of the details on this War on Death. Very suspicious.

My knowledge is less certain than it might seem. Some of it is laziness, for example when I am using verbal tenses that express certainty because I'm tired of writing "I think", "I suppose" and so on when it's pretty obvious that those are only my thoughts, as it was me who wrote them down.

This particular bit, however, comes from a character who said something along the lines of: "every fallen ally went on to replenish the enemy lines". If I remember correctly, it was Tulas chatting with Kallor in TtH. Besides, it would be only logical to assume that Hood fighting against Death implies that he was not its god at the time. Thus an army of undead would have fought against him.

Now, this information does not represent a spoiler of ICE's books, nor a FoD spoiler for reasons I will elaborate only in a private conversation, as I do not want to explain here using the same spoilers I am trying to avoid posting.

It is when Kallor is musing on the idea of a war against death after Tulas leaves him.

Quote

A nameless dead dragon, that had fallen in the realm of death, that had fallen and in dying had simply... switched sides. No, there could be no winning such a war.

[D'rek]

Tulas says to Kallor in TtH that he fought in the War vs Death. Does he say that he actually died in it? If not, he could've fought that and then later fought in the Shadow wars and was killed by Rake then.

[Inane Babble]

He says that he "remembers his death" but there is no mention of when or where it happened.

[worry]

Very suspicious.

[DaddyDraconus]

Remember that when S Ruin first encounters Tulas in TCG he refers to him as prince and then as pretender. Also there are made mention of his hounds now being in the hands of shadowthrone by draconus. Considering the God bound nature of those beasts and the mocking title of prince, which causes Tulas to cock his head and question if Ruin will refer to him by his "proper" title, I'm going to take a jump and say that Tulas was maybe the first to actually find the real Throne of Shadow (you know the one on drift avali) before the sundering. Obviously if thats the case he didn't hold it for very long lol.

A cool thing this reread help put into focus for me, FOD Spoiler:

Spoiler

The jhecklan kids that Tulas inherits become the hounds

So one must wonder if the shorn part added to his name is releated to grabbing that crown. Also he seems to have inside knowlege of shadowthrone as he tells Ruin that he'd be surpised about the legitimacy of that god's rule.