[Okai]

I just finished reading Gardens of the Moon not to long ago. I'm wondering what the tittle, Gardens of the Moon, mean. Besides one conversation, it seems a strange tittle to pick. What does it mean in the context to the novel and does it have thematic importance?

This post has been edited by Okai: 26 April 2014 - 05:28 PM

[Dadding]

There's been a couple posts about this already. I personally think it draws from the themes of Sorry's speech and applies them to the whole book, the whole idea of innocence and ignorance is bliss (the fantasy of there being life / afterlife on the moon). A lot of characters start off innocent and naive (Ganoes) and grow into a more adult, experienced character. There's also been some talk of the title referencing the Tiste Andii society in Moon's Spawn.

Imperial Historian says that a lot more eloquently than me.

Imperial Historian, on 19 April 2010 - 09:07 PM, said:

The title Gardens of the Moon refers to a legend recitedby Apsalar, presumably of malaz origin,

""Its oceans. Grallin's Sea. That's the big one. The Lord of the Deep Waters living there is Grallin. He tends vast, beautiful underwater gardens. Grallin will come down to us, one day, to our world. And he'll gather his chosen and take them to his world. And we'll live in those gardens, warmed by the deep fires, and our children will swim like dolphins, and we'll be happy since there won't be anymore wars, and no empires, and no swords and shields."

Which I think refers back to what I see as one of the main themes of the novel, that we live in an imperfect world of tyranny, war and injustice, but still dream of this perfect utopia with no more wars. The various protagonists live this in different ways... the malazans by seeking to conquer all so there are no more wars, rake, brood and co seeking to prevent the spread of the tyranny of the malazans, tool and lorn freeing an ancient evil to reduce the loss of life to malazans, kruppe and co trying to live in peace (note darujhistan has no army), but always resisting tyranny, and the problems with all these attempts to achieve utopia.

The other main themes are probably war is hell, with the numerous attempts to portray the damage war can cause, and how otherwise good people can take horrific actions, see lorn and tool both fairly sympathetic characters releasing raest a great evil with no idea whether it will work out for the best, tays destroying the malazan army in an effort to drive off rake, tatersail and calot, protecting themselves over the army around them.

Another theme is probably power and the effect it has on people... the darujhistan council (orr and simtal) scheming to gain power, rake who has great power but seeks to use it responsibly, tays with similar power who uses it irresponsibly, circle breaker with limited power seeking to deny others it, raest with huge power seeking to dominate all, whiskeyjack who could have power but seeks ever to avoid it (similarly with coll), there are probably lots of other examples around.

http://encyclopediam...s.com/Geography for maps and geography... but people seem to have given good explaination above.

As for the plot... well good luck with that... malazan empire tries to conquer darujhistan, and fails... sort of (with comic and violent interludes) would be my best shot.

This post has been edited by Dadding: 27 November 2014 - 09:58 PM

[A Demon Llama!]

Is there any connection to the title and Moons Spawn? In the later books, a certain character visits a or the garden there if I recall faintly. Dunno if its a deeper and connected meaning or just there but I remember something about that.

[Dadding]

A Demon Llama!, on 28 April 2014 - 03:27 AM, said:

Is there any connection to the title and Moons Spawn?

Spoiler

In the later books, a certain character visits a or the garden there if I recall faintly.

Dunno if its a deeper and connected meaning or just there but I remember something about that.

Might be a good idea to spoiler that, but that's a really good point, I just read that scene tonight.


(Spoilers for OST)

Spoiler

Orchid, Antsy, Corien and Malakai discover that there's a garden in Moon's Spawn that contains vegetation that can grow with no light. Malakai reveals that Apsalar (the Ascendant) was on Moon's Spawn to steal a black rose from said garden. That's a really cool connection to Sorry's new name - seeing as she's the one who brings up the idea of gardens on the moon, and her namesake is killed trying to pillage a garden on the moon.

This post has been edited by Dadding: 28 April 2014 - 03:51 AM

[Kah-thurak]

Here is quote from SE out of the Tor.com Re-Read:

Quote

Now, I'm sorta warmed up. Before I get to the matter of DEM's and all that ... now that the series is done, and now that I've already said elsewhere that Toll the Hounds provides the cipher for understanding the series, it probably does no harm to reveal what was going on in my mind during the writing of Gardens of the Moon, and how my reality (and sense of it) shaped what I wrote, and gave me the reasons for writing it the way I did.

As any beginning writer well knows, the future is filled with soaring hope and crushing despair. Yes, there are bestselling writers out there making a decent living (or even filthy rich), all happily writing full-time. But they are a minority; and most even published writers need to supplement their habit with 'real work.' So, you hope and you fear. You want but you also need to be realistic. And in the bookshops you pick up titles and read a little bit and wonder how in hell did this ever get published? Or you think, ah, here I am in good hands.

And you daydream. A lot. These days they call it visualisation. So, there we were, living on Saltspring Island, unemployed and on welfare (starving in paraidse, we still call that phase of our lives). A baby about to arrive and scant prospects on the horizon.

But I kept looking at those books in the stores, trying to work out why some ever made it into print; trying to figure out the rhyme or reason of publishing. It looked like the biggest crapshoot imaginable. Seemed to me that luck played as big a role as talent. Who you knew, that kind of thing.

Luck. I sat down to write this fantasy novel, thinking about chance and mischance. Thinking about a life in anonymity and a life that wasn't (refer if you will to Circle Breaker in the epilogue and the novel's last line). Thinking about writing a tale filled with magic, high adventure and a wild, if not insane, climax. And dreaming of getting it published and actually making a living as a writer.

Lots of dreams went into Gardens of the Moon (hence the title, too, and the invented mythos surrounding it), along with ambition. And the writing thereof became on one level a dialogue with myself (as is the entire series). I wasn't there to write a war-of-the-roses kind of fantasy novel; I wasn't there to slide elves and demons and vampires into the alleys of our city streets: I was there to write high fantasy, even as I actively dragged it down to ground level.

This post has been edited by Kah-thurak: 05 September 2014 - 12:48 PM

[karsa orlong rulez]

I read upto Bonhunters before I understood the meaning of this title. There is a certain coversation between Apsalar and someone else where the meaning became clear to me.

[Egwene]

Reading the transcript of that interview with Erikson... maybe...

'Gardens of the Moon' is just another figure of speech for 'Pie in the sky'

Dreaming of the possible impossible...

[theocean]

its mentioned that the moon has pretty gardens.

[BellaGrace]

karsa orlong rulez, on 14 October 2014 - 01:17 AM, said:

I read upto Bonhunters before I understood the meaning of this title. There is a certain coversation between Apsalar and someone else where the meaning became clear to me.

I'm nearly done with Bonehunters and agree... this is where I finally understood it too.

[Creed]

Crokus talks to Apsalar about the gardens of the moon, when they sit around star-gazing. it's a story, a myth more likely. I mean, you definitely can and should find deeper meanings to it, but that's the easy answer.

[Tru]

Creed, on 27 November 2014 - 05:13 PM, said:

Crokus talks to Apsalar about the gardens of the moon, when they sit around star-gazing. it's a story, a myth more likely. I mean, you definitely can and should find deeper meanings to it, but that's the easy answer.

This was my assumption as well, and though not in your face, it seemed very obvious upon reading it, but it appears there is more conjecture about it, which I'm not sure if that is just people trying to hard, or on to something. With Erikson, sometimes the obvious answer is the right one, but sometimes not.

[HoosierDaddy]

"Tittle". Ha.

I'm not 12 I promise.

[Phlecs.]

I always assumed the name related to the initial battle of moon's spawn hovering over Pale and all the events that unraveled due to that battle.

[Gorefest]

BellaGrace, on 19 October 2014 - 04:18 AM, said:

karsa orlong rulez, on 14 October 2014 - 01:17 AM, said:

I read upto Bonhunters before I understood the meaning of this title. There is a certain coversation between Apsalar and someone else where the meaning became clear to me.

I'm nearly done with Bonehunters and agree... this is where I finally understood it too.

I think that was more a retcon, SE just worked that in to give the title in-world reverberance. I believe in various interviews SE has stated that initially the choice for the title was made because A) he had a look at various fantasy books on display in shops and tried to figure out what sort of title or format made them eye-catching on a shelf and B ) it is a metaphor for the vision they had with Malazan: a sprawling epic, almost impossibly grand and overreaching in its ambition, like cultivating gardens on the moon.

This post has been edited by Gorefest: 06 January 2015 - 01:07 PM

[selesta27]

Maybe Gardens of the Moon because Anomander Rake - the master of the lunar flying fortress take part in War. I've read at some legit custom essay writing, is the best book from the series, and that many secrets and question will be shown and discussed only in the last book. So continue reading and you will find out everything by yourself.