[Rapscallion]

And I am highly disappointed.

The book was enjoyable, don't get me wrong, but the ending left a bad taste in my mouth.

First there's the abrupt resolution of a conflict that felt like it would stretch over multiple books (also a flaw that appears in MoI with the Pannion seer) with the Malazans getting off nearly scot free. Why hype up the army of the apocalypse at all if it was brittle enough to have its chain of command shattered by two Claws, a red blade and a high mage?

Couple this with the fact this event was foreshadowed for nearly 3 books and you get a dissatisfying conclusion that leaves you wondering if you read it properly.

While the end of the Felisin/Tavore act (tragic and immensely frustrating to read, but that's not a bad thing) was well written, it arrived too fast for its own good and failed to do the Felision/Heboric arc justice. All in all it feels like Felisin failed to accomplish anything, that she might as well have died in Unta.

I'm going to cross my fingers and hope that the author has plans for the future and that we've not seen the end of that. At the very least it could surface again to add depth to Tavore's story.

Sorry, rant over.

[worry]

Ah, you've just had your first Malazan anticlimax! I remember mine quite fondly, but to each his own.

[Stormcat]

HoC was my least favorite so far. I was not happy at all with the Felisin/Tavore end.

Spoiler

why does she get off not knowing who she killed? She SHOULD feel bad in my opinion.

But overall it's still some of he best writing out there. I felt something for every character and cared what happened to everyone. The next book more than makes up for any issue with this one. At least I think so.

[Stormcat]

The next two books are so so very good.

[Tarthenal Theloman Toblakai]

 Rapscallion, on 13 November 2013 - 03:36 AM, said:

And I am highly disappointed.

The book was enjoyable, don't get me wrong, but the ending left a bad taste in my mouth.

First there's the abrupt resolution of a conflict that felt like it would stretch over multiple books (also a flaw that appears in MoI with the Pannion seer) with the Malazans getting off nearly scot free. Why hype up the army of the apocalypse at all if it was brittle enough to have its chain of command shattered by two Claws, a red blade and a high mage?

Couple this with the fact this event was foreshadowed for nearly 3 books and you get a dissatisfying conclusion that leaves you wondering if you read it properly.

While the end of the Felisin/Tavore act (tragic and immensely frustrating to read, but that's not a bad thing) was well written, it arrived too fast for its own good and failed to do the Felision/Heboric arc justice. All in all it feels like Felisin failed to accomplish anything, that she might as well have died in Unta.

I'm going to cross my fingers and hope that the author has plans for the future and that we've not seen the end of that. At the very least it could surface again to add depth to Tavore's story.

Sorry, rant over.

I think Erikson wrote it as an anticlimax on purpose in a way. gives you that rollercoaster feel of ups and downs. I actually really enjoyed the book, the Karsa stuff was epic and the ghost army and stuff i thought was really cool. The books do delve deeper and deeper into characters so don't think the story just cuts there to a different character so don't you worry. There may be a gap where it does cut to somewhere else but you will hear from them again just keep reading!

I think that Felisin was meant to fail, I think that she is supposed to be tragic, as she pretty much was for the whole of he story. I think she was really spoilt and annoying so I didn't like her much anyways, but I did enjoy the book nontheless. I don't think that you need to like a character to enjoy their story arc in my opinion either.

Also, here is the best place to rant, gets your pent up anger out and also helps you to understand why a story arc might be how it is and also maybe change your opinions on stuff that are meant a different way than you imagined, or maybe just get a good discussion started about different opinions on teh same subject!

[Tarthenal Theloman Toblakai]

 Stormcat, on 13 November 2013 - 04:33 AM, said:

HoC was my least favorite so far. I was not happy at all with the Felisin/Tavore end.

Spoiler

why does she get off not knowing who she killed? She SHOULD feel bad in my opinion.

But overall it's still some of he best writing out there. I felt something for every character and cared what happened to everyone. The next book more than makes up for any issue with this one. At least I think so.

I think that it sets up events for the later books, her not knowing who it was is a start for everything to come, without posting spoilers I won't go any further

[Stormcat]

I didn't dislike anyone and thought Felisin was so tragic and sad. I think her bratty side was a cover up for the pain. Several times she starts to reach out and just can't because she is so damaged. I do hope Tavore at least finds out The Karsa stuff was pretty good. It was my least favorite book but I still love all of them so far.

[Traveller]

 Rapscallion, on 13 November 2013 - 03:36 AM, said:

And I am highly disappointed.

The book was enjoyable, don't get me wrong, but the ending left a bad taste in my mouth.

First there's the abrupt resolution of a conflict that felt like it would stretch over multiple books (also a flaw that appears in MoI with the Pannion seer) with the Malazans getting off nearly scot free. Why hype up the army of the apocalypse at all if it was brittle enough to have its chain of command shattered by two Claws, a red blade and a high mage?

Couple this with the fact this event was foreshadowed for nearly 3 books and you get a dissatisfying conclusion that leaves you wondering if you read it properly.

While the end of the Felisin/Tavore act (tragic and immensely frustrating to read, but that's not a bad thing) was well written, it arrived too fast for its own good and failed to do the Felision/Heboric arc justice. All in all it feels like Felisin failed to accomplish anything, that she might as well have died in Unta.

I'm going to cross my fingers and hope that the author has plans for the future and that we've not seen the end of that. At the very least it could surface again to add depth to Tavore's story.

Sorry, rant over.

That is kind of what tragedy is. People do die for nothing. After all of Felisin's trials and efforts, and final realisations, she

Spoiler

died without being able to voice any of it. The fact that Tavore didn't find out is a final twist of the knife.

If you're disappointed with that, you might be reading the wrong series.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 13 November 2013 - 10:17 AM

[Kanese S's]

 Stormcat, on 13 November 2013 - 04:33 AM, said:

HoC was my least favorite so far. I was not happy at all with the Felisin/Tavore end.

Spoiler

why does she get off not knowing who she killed? She SHOULD feel bad in my opinion.

But overall it's still some of he best writing out there. I felt something for every character and cared what happened to everyone. The next book more than makes up for any issue with this one. At least I think so.

I felt that way, initially.

Later on, as I read more about Tavore, I changed my mind. No spoilers, but by the end of the last book, I felt like a total asshole for ever thinking that.

[Kanese S's]

Also... this is the Malazan Book of the Fallen.

It kinda implies in the title that it's a tragedy.


My opinion of Felisin changed completely on the reread.

[D'iversify]

It was an anti-climactic ending but not, I felt, unrealistic given the way that rebellions so often collapse after their initial victory. The Whirlwind's weakness was also a good demonstration of how its power was primarily built on fear and myth, which disguised its inherent frailty.

[Stormcat]

 Kanese S, on 13 November 2013 - 11:13 AM, said:

 Stormcat, on 13 November 2013 - 04:33 AM, said:

HoC was my least favorite so far. I was not happy at all with the Felisin/Tavore end.

Spoiler

why does she get off not knowing who she killed? She SHOULD feel bad in my opinion.

But overall it's still some of he best writing out there. I felt something for every character and cared what happened to everyone. The next book more than makes up for any issue with this one. At least I think so.

I felt that way, initially.

Later on, as I read more about Tavore, I changed my mind. No spoilers, but by the end of the last book, I felt like a total asshole for ever thinking that.

I still think no matter how it plays out she should feel bad about what she did to Felisin. But I am only on RoTG so I am sure there is much more character development to come. Hands down this is one of the best series I have read.

[HoosierDaddy]

 Stormcat, on 13 November 2013 - 09:24 PM, said:

 Kanese S, on 13 November 2013 - 11:13 AM, said:

 Stormcat, on 13 November 2013 - 04:33 AM, said:

HoC was my least favorite so far. I was not happy at all with the Felisin/Tavore end.

Spoiler

why does she get off not knowing who she killed? She SHOULD feel bad in my opinion.

But overall it's still some of he best writing out there. I felt something for every character and cared what happened to everyone. The next book more than makes up for any issue with this one. At least I think so.

I felt that way, initially.

Later on, as I read more about Tavore, I changed my mind. No spoilers, but by the end of the last book, I felt like a total asshole for ever thinking that.

I still think no matter how it plays out she should feel bad about what she did to Felisin. But I am only on RoTG so I am sure there is much more character development to come. Hands down this is one of the best series I have read.

The question here is: Do you have ANY idea of how Tavore feels? About anything? Loyalty to her army and the Empress, maybe. And that's only through action. She's deader inside than a T'lan Imass.

[Stormcat]

The fact that Pearl and Lostara

Spoiler

hid the fact that she killed her own sister doesn't even give her a chance to feel anything about it. I think she should have been told or seen her face. But I admit this may be something that comes up later

I know I need to RAFO.

[Kanese S's]

Would you want it revealed to you? That you'd killed your own sibling due to not knowing who she was?

Pearl and Lostara chose to simply say that Felisin was dead, rather than tell Tavore everything, out of compassion.

This post has been edited by Kanese S's: 14 November 2013 - 11:50 AM

[Stormcat]

Yeah but she sent her to the mines where she was destroyed. So I think she should know and own up to what she did that caused that road to be taken.she SHOULD feel bad.

[Traveller]

She sent her to the mines with a TALON bodyguard. I don't think she ever intended it all to go as it did - if the rebellion hadn't kicked off she would have been retrieved at a later time, with a minimal amount of damage.

When the Whirlwind started and the mines were involved, she sent Lostara and Pearl to find her. Who did not tell her F's fate, as Kanese said, out of compassion.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 14 November 2013 - 02:08 PM

[Spoilsport Stonny]

I think in the context of HoC we're SUPPOSED to feel confusion about Tavore and her ignorance about Felisin. Its a tragic ending to a tragic character who was made incredibly unlikable, but by no means evil. It was the God that possessed her who was malicious. And that situation, and House of Chains overall, is a subversion of the hero trope and the traditional "final battle"/convergence idea. How many books have been writtten where the leader of the good guys kills the leader of the bad guys in some epic sword fight, knowing exactly who he (and I say "he" specifically here, because in this case its two females, and don't think for a second that was on accident) is and how righteous the hero is for slaying him, exhibiting the execution as a means of justice. Of course further down the line, the idea of what Tavore knows may or may not be explained, and that is for a different forum discussion. The whole Whirlwind rebellion was doomed from the start, if you look back at the circumstances. The whole chain o' command was infiltrated by powerful factions who were each seeking their own ends and none of them really concerned liberation of Seven Cities from the Empire. Especially Sha'ik.In the beginning, Leoman converses with Heboric and Karsa about all the different factions and even Heboric remarks that Leoman is maneuvering to "crush the conspiracies" and regain power under Sha'ik. So from the beginning of Book 2 of HoC, the Whirlwind Rebellion is already being undermined from just about every angle.

Edit: here's an interesting little tidbit I found in HoC:

Quote

Unmindful, L’oric continued, ‘Quick Ben has been made High Mage. It is believed the surviving Bridgeburners departed by warren to Darujhistan, though my spy is in fact uncertain of that. Whiskeyjack and the fallen Bridgeburners ... were interred ... in Moon’s Spawn, which has – gods below! Abandoned! The Son of Darkness has abandoned Moon’s Spawn!’ He seemed to shiver then, and slowly looked up, blinking rapidly. A deep breath, loosed raggedly. ‘Whiskeyjack was killed by one of Brood’s commanders. Betrayal, it seemed, plagued the alliance.’
‘Of course it did,’ Korbolo Dom sneered.

Yes, Dom. Of course.

This post has been edited by Spoilsport Stonny: 14 November 2013 - 03:12 PM

[worry]

Indeed. One of my favorite revelations (from Mathok I believe) is that the Book of Dryjhna might not be a book of prophecy in the first place, but a history of something that has already happened, using poetic license. Stonny's right, the rebellion never was what it was.

This post has been edited by worry: 14 November 2013 - 09:23 PM

[Hazmandoo]

I think that the main problem with the ending to HoC is that ending of MoI was just so damn epic.

But really, Ericson did the perfect thing by pulling the rug from under our feet and having it end the way it did lest he become predictable with the arcs contained within each book. I thoroughly enjoyed it and the Tavore/Felsin scene was so damn tragic it really kicks you in the ass before you dust yourself off and plunge into the next book.